2020·12·12 KMAG Daily Thread

The Great Conjunction

Instead of politics, I’m going to talk about what’s about to happen on the 21st at about 5PM.

Jupiter and Saturn, which appear in the southwestern sky shortly after sunset, will appear in our sky only 6 arc minutes apart. When they come close to each other like this, it’s called a Great Conjunction, because it’s the rarest of all possible conjunctions involving planets visible with the naked eye.

Jupiter and Saturn in Sagittarius (you can see the “teapot” asterism) earlier this summer.
The central black hole of the Milky Way Galaxy is somewhere in that direction also. (Photo by me.)

That is one fifth of the apparent width of the full moon.

It’s also about the width of six quarters, laid out side to side, at a hundred yards, or about a six inch wide object at that distance.

As of 5 PM Friday the 11th, Mountain Time, or 0000 Zulu on the 12th, they are 1.08 degrees apart in the sky, which is to say about 65 arc minutes. (60 arc minutes makes a degree).

I know this because I downloaded a bunch of sun-centered coordinates for Earth, Jupiter and Saturn from the NASA website, built a spreadsheet to do the calculations to center the coordinates on earth, then did a vector cross product of the normalized vectors and took the arcsine. (That either meant something to you…or it didn’t!) What you are about to see here in my diagrams, below, is the real stuff, with the real planetary positions, as best as I can draw it; it’s not some notional cartoon.

As of 5 PM on the 21st, Mountain Time, the separation is 0.105 degrees, which is 6.3 arc minutes.

If you look through a telescope at 5PM MST on the 21st, this is what you will see:

Jupiter/Saturn Conjunction
A view showing how the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction will appear in a telescope pointed toward the western horizon at 6 p.m. CST, Dec. 21, 2020. The image is adapted from graphics by open-source planetarium software Stellarium. (This work, “jupsat1,” is adapted from Stellarium by Patrick Hartigan, used under GPL-2.0, and provided under CC BY 4.0 courtesy of Patrick Hartigan)

Yes, you will see Jupiter and Saturn in the SAME field of view, without having to shift!

Now if you’ve been watching Jupiter and Saturn since this summer, when they were essentially right on top of the Summer Milky Way Galaxy, you noticed they were close. They don’t seem much closer today, but they’re going to get a lot closer, a lot faster now.

What’s going on?

Again, going back to my NASA data dump, I can create a picture, looking down from above the Sun’s north pole, of 5 PM on the 12th. The dots representing the planets and sun are actually much too large, but the distances are to scale.

My diagram, drawn from NASA supplied heliocentric ephemerides.
(One thing I had to cheat on is the orbits, I drew them as perfect circles centered on the Sun,
and they really aren’t, quite, but they’re close.)

The arrows correspond to how fast (and in what direction) the planets are moving around the Sun, and they’re even scaled…the length of the shaft of the arrow is how much it will move in ten days (ignore the head of the arrow, which is sized to be bigger than the shaft for Saturn’s arrow).

Earth is “up” from the Sun in this diagram because the way the coordinate system is defined, it’s on the X axis to the right of the sun at the beginning of fall (in the northern hemisphere). A quarter of a year later, Earth has moved almost ninety degrees around its orbit, so it will be near the Y axis, “above” the Sun.

You can see that the earth is moving one way (“left” on the diagram), and Jupiter and Saturn are moving the other way (right-ish), and furthermore that Jupiter is catching up to Saturn. (Since both Jupiter and Saturn are moving in nearly-circular orbits, and Jupiter is closer to the Sun, Jupiter moves faster than Saturn, and Earth moves faster still. See Kepler’s second and third laws.) With Jupiter to the left of the Earth-Saturn line, and moving rightwards towards that line, and Earth moving to the left, dragging one end of the Earth-Saturn line with it, Jupiter’s going to find itself on that line pretty doggone quickly.

My diagram, drawn from NASA supplied heliocentric ephemerides.
(One thing I had to cheat on is the orbits, I drew them as perfect circles centered on the Sun,
and they really aren’t, quite, but they’re close.)

Shazam, you now have the closest conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter (by definition as seen from Earth) in about 800 years!

But you might think, doesn’t this happen every time Jupiter “laps” Saturn? Jupiter, moving around the Sun once every 12 years, will lap Saturn, moving around the sun every 28 years, every 20 years or so. And indeed there is a great conjunction just about every 20 years, sometimes even multiples in that year if the timing is such that Earth zig-zags across the Saturn-Jupiter line.

But most great conjunctions aren’t really this close as seen from Earth. The reason that’s not plain here is that these pictures do not, and cannot, tell the whole story. They’re two dimensional and the full story is three dimensional.

Although the orbits almost lie in the same plane, they do not. And that difference is critical. The diagrams are set up so that they show the Earth’s orbital plane, also called the plane of the ecliptic. Jupiter’s is tilted by 1.31 degrees, and Saturn’s is tilted 2.48 degrees. So it turns out that right now, those planets would, in fact, be slightly inside your screen if it were a 3D display. If you take the Earth’s orbit’s radius (not diameter) as “1 Astronomical Unit” then Jupiter is almost exactly 5% or 1/20th of that distance inside your screen. Saturn is 7% of that distance into your screen. You can hopefully imagine the line from Earth descending at a shallow gradient into the screen, going through Jupiter, then continuing its descent and almost crossing through Saturn, which is just a bit deeper into the screen.

Different great conjunctions occur when Jupiter and Saturn are at different spots in their orbits, and in many cases one of them will be above the plane of your computer screen while the other one is below it. What you’d see here on Earth when that happens is one of them crossing considerably to the north of the other in the sky, rather than almost–almost–right on top of each other.

That’s why this great conjunction is so special. They’re not just lined up on my diagram (as they would be every 20 years or so), they’re damn close to being lined up in three dimensions, so from Earth, you will see Jupiter almost directly in front of Saturn, and that is rare! (Though it will happen again in sixty years–today’s young adults and children will have another shot at this–but after that, wait four centuries or so.)

It’s important to note that the planets never actually get close to each other. Jupiter and Saturn are further apart than the distance from the Earth to the Sun. It’s just that sometimes they are almost on the same line of sight as seen from here.

Star of Bethlehem?

This event is being hyped as the “Star of Bethlehem.” But whatever it was that happened then, it probably wasn’t a great conjunction. Trying to nail down just what the original Star of Bethlehem actually was (assuming it isn’t completely mythical) has been an occasional pastime for nearly two thousand years. We don’t know the year, and frankly, we don’t even know the season. (There’s no actual scriptural warrant for the nativity being in late December.) The nativity is described in two of the gospels, Matthew and Luke, with the Star of Bethlehem only appearing in Matthew’s account. The time indications in the two gospels are actually years apart (Herod’s reign ended in 4 BC, Quirinius didn’t become governor of Syria until 6 AD). Even if there’s a way to reconcile that through some new historical discovery, which year would the reconciliation point to?

People seeking an astronomical event that could have been the Star of Bethlehem therefore have to search over at least a ten year range. Well there was a Great Conjunction in 7 BC (in fact they got three of them because the Earth managed to zigzag across the Jupiter-Saturn line that year), but it wasn’t close enough to be very impressive, and 7 BC was almost certainly too early anyway.

But there was a very close conjunction of Jupiter and Venus in 2 BC, near Regulus, the brightest star in Leo, on June 17. It was certainly more visually striking, because Venus is far brighter than Saturn, and the conjunction was closer than any of the three great conjunctions in 7 BC, to boot. This could be a candidate.

2002 Triple Conjunction

There was a series of conjunctions, albeit not involving Jupiter, in 2002. I remember there was quite a clustering of planets in the evening sky that year. According to Wikipedia:

Venus, Mars and Saturn appeared close together in the evening sky in early May 2002, with a conjunction of Mars and Saturn occurring on 4 May. This was followed by a conjunction of Venus and Saturn on 7 May, and another of Venus and Mars on 10 May when their angular separation was only 18 arcminutes. A series of conjunctions between the Moon and, in order, Saturn, Mars and Venus took place on 14 May, although it was not possible to observe all these in darkness from any single location on the Earth.

Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_(astronomy)

Note that Venus and Mars got to within three times the distance Jupiter and Saturn will get on the 21st. If you happen to remember that, this is going to kick its ass.

Conjunctions Involving The Sun

Oftentimes a planet will have a conjunction with the Sun, and when that happens they will generally just say, for example, “Jupiter is in conjunction” without naming the Sun. It’s assumed.

The Sun will be passing in front of Jupiter and Saturn in a couple of months, as seen from Earth; just imagine in my diagrams Earth moving further around its orbit quite quickly while Jupiter and Saturn move much more slowly, and you’ll “see” it happening.

There won’t be much to see, of course, because to see the event, you have to do so when the Sun is above the horizon, and that, of course, is daytime.

Since Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are further out from the Sun than Earth is, when we see a conjunction involving those planets and the sun, the planet is always “behind” the sun.

But what about Mercury and Venus? They can have conjunctions where they are on the other side of the sun, or conjunctions where they are between us and the sun. The former are called superior conjunctions and the latter, inferior conjunctions.

Again, because their orbits are tilted with respect to ours, they don’t pass directly behind (or in front of) the Sun that often, usually looking like they are to the south or north of the Sun at closest approach.

But every once in a while one of these planets will pass in front of the sun (which is a big broad target compared to any other planet), and that’s called a transit. Venus in particular generally has pairs of conjunctions 8 years apart…but the pairs are separated by about a century. When this happens you can, with glasses of the type you’d use to look at the sun near an eclipse, actually see a little black dot on the face of the sun, even without a telescope. This last happened in 2004 and 2012, so if you missed it you are SOL, the next occurrence is in December 2117. (And yes, I was watching in 2012.)

Venus transits are of huge historical importance; they gave us our first good way of measuring the size of Earth’s orbit and (since we already knew the proportions) hence the size of just about everything in the Solar System. (Or, equivalently: It told us how big an “astronomical unit” was in more earthly measurements; since we already knew the size of everything in the Solar System in AUs, we could now give distances in furlongs, if we wanted to, by multiplying.)

Here’s a deep dive on Venus transits (including why they are important) that I wrote at the time, and a later article including pictures I took.

Raw data

This is the position and velocity data I pulled off the NASA website. Sun is at (0, 0, 0). Distances are in AU (astronomical units), velocity is in AU/day. 1 AU by definition is 149,597,870,700 meters (92,955,807 miles, 1441 feet, 6.898- inches), it was originally defined as the semi-major axis of the Earth’s orbit, and a day is precisely 86,400 seconds (no matter how much the Earth slows down rotating). The diagrams were created at the scale of 100 pixels = 1AU, and they appear to have come across (into WordPress’s editor at least) at the proper size.

2459195.500000000 = A.D. 2020-Dec-12 00:00:00.0000 TDB
X = 1.622579957389862E-01 Y = 9.761221058229992E-01 Z = 5.373489375534890E-05
VX=-1.724242466206539E-02 VY= 2.883832025215380E-03 VZ= 6.987175827141265E-07

2459205.500000000 = A.D. 2020-Dec-22 00:00:00.0000 TDB
X =-1.188898588832658E-02 Y = 9.897218187033275E-01 Z = 6.029984014237024E-05
VX= 6.031051355304800E-03 VY= 4.767506691437359E-03 VZ=-1.546747270590170E-04

2459195.500000000 = A.D. 2020-Dec-12 00:00:00.0000 TDB
X = 2.914228592894236E+00 Y =-4.177510430316559E+00 Z =-4.786920225992232E-02
VX= 6.095603857740477E-03 VY= 4.674926465555783E-03 VZ=-1.557747700228924E-04

2459205.500000000 = A.D. 2020-Dec-22 00:00:00.0000 TDB
X = 2.974861050901444E+00 Y =-4.130298866311659E+00 Z =-4.942153470106487E-02
VX= 6.031051355304800E-03 VY= 4.767506691437359E-03 VZ=-1.546747270590170E-04

2459195.500000000 = A.D. 2020-Dec-12 00:00:00.0000 TDB
X = 5.396386096136037E+00 Y =-8.396666010466467E+00 Z =-6.884059973895380E-02
VX= 4.382900563538985E-03 VY= 3.001959812133514E-03 VZ=-2.266077336665883E-04

459205.500000000 = A.D. 2020-Dec-22 00:00:00.0000 TDB
X = 5.440127588899244E+00 Y =-8.366514834723951E+00 Z =-7.110831635421563E-02
VX= 4.365303571900237E-03 VY= 3.027110022628067E-03 VZ=-2.263327688903255E-04

A Reminder Of Today’s Big Issue.

Our movement is about replacing a failed and corrupt political establishment with a new government controlled by you, the American People...Our campaign represents a true existential threat, like they’ve never seen before.

Then-Candidate Donald J. Trump

Needs to happen, soon.

Lawyer Appeasement Section

OK now for the fine print.

Please note that our menu has changed, please listen to all of the options.

This is the WQTH Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Political correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines,  here, with an addendum on 20191110.

We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.

And remember Wheatie’s Rules:

1. No food fights
2. No running with scissors.
3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone.
4. The first rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government take your guns.
5. The gun is always loaded.
5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty.
6. Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy.
7. Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
8. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
9. Social Justice Warriors, ANTIFA pukes, BLM hypocrites, and other assorted varieties of Marxists can go copulate with themselves, or if insufficiently limber, may substitute a rusty wire brush suitable for cleaning the bore of a twelve or ten gauge.

(Hmm a few extras seem to have crept in.)

Coin of The Day

No coin today.

But I told Grandma In TX that’s she’d hit a 1000 today [Friday], and that triggered someone to talk about a grand grandma, and I remembered something.

In 1890, the US issued “Treasury Notes” or “Coin Notes” in many denominations. This and 1891 were the only years they issued paper money of this specific category, The specific use was to pay for purchasing silver bullion (which, of course, would then be made into coins). You could redeem these notes, just like silver or gold certificates, but the government could decide whether it’d be in silver or gold coin. Every denomination available today was covered, $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100, and there were also $500 and $1000 notes.

The ones issued in 1890 look very different from the 1891 notes, and are called “patternback” notes, for reasons you’ll soon understand. The $50 and $500 were not issued in 1890, so the patternback notes only exist for $1-$20, $100, and $1000 denominations.

This series features a lot of Civil War flag officers on it, many of them obscure to people who are not active Civil War buffs.

$1 Treasury or “Coin” Note of 1890, known as the “Patternback”
Portrait is of Edwin M. Stanton, Secretary of War (i.e., the Army) during the Civil War.

Note there is a very elaborate repeating pattern inside the denomination on the reverse; that’s why it’s called a patternback. (In heraldry, sometimes there’s an elaborate repeating background pattern in a coat of arms…it’s actually, I am not making this up, called “diaper” but presumably not in front of the knight whose coat of arms it was.)

Moving along, here’s the $2, $5, $10, and $20

Portrait of Civil War General James McPherson
Portrait of Civil War General George H. Thomas
Civil War General Phillip D. Sheridan
John Marshall, Secretary of State (1800-1801) then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States (1801-1835)

Now there is a thing to know about these old “large size” (the size of one of those old computer cards) notes. They get extremely rare in some cases. Notes tended to wear out quickly and rapidly get redeemed, even if only for a newer note. If someone actually set aside twenty dollars back then, trying to save the note…well, they had more money than they knew what to do with; remember that was very close to being a full ounce of gold!

That $20 in VF-20 (the number is on a scale of 1-70) will set you back at least six thousand dollars, and that’s actually relatively affordable for an old $20. A silver certificate from 1878 or 1880 is simply impossible in such a grade (my book doesn’t list anything higher than F-12), later series get down to about the same range as this patternback.

The true nosebleed territory starts with the $50 denomination. There are literally notes where there are no known survivors. Others are marked “Extremely Rare” and “One known” and the book doesn’t even try to give a price. But as there isn’t a patternback $50, we’ll move on to the stratosphere now.

The $100 Patternback, also known as the “Watermelon”
Portrait is of Admiral David Farragut

The “big” denomination on this wasn’t spelled out like the others, and the pattern ended up resembling a watermelon on the two zeros, so this is known today as the watermelon note. And it will cost you a hundred…thousand…dollars in VF-20. The good news is, in EF-40 it “only” goes up to $170,000 instead of doubling or tripling like I’d usually expect. The book gives no price for higher grades.

Now I can at least see spending 6 or 8 grand on a collectible note…but a hundred thousand dollars? Thank you but no, I’d rather have a house!

Now on to the last note.

We skip over $500, since there was no patternback $500. (By the way, before we stopped printing $500 as federal reserve notes, they had McKinley on them. McKinley comes after Franklin. (And if you want to know: Grover Cleveland on the $1000, James Madison on the $5000, Salmon Chase on the $10,000 and Woodrow-be-damned Wilson on the $100,000.)

The Grand Watermelon
Portrait is of General George Meade

The One Thousand Dollar Patternback keeps the “melon” look of the C-note, and is called the Grand Watermelon.

My book calls these “extremely rare.” One in AU (about uncirculated, the numerical grade would be in the 50s) is the very first US note to sell for over a million dollars. There’s another variant with a small red seal overprint on the front, instead of the big brown one you see here; two are known to exist.

When a note is this rare, you don’t care about the fact that someone scribbled their name and a date (presumably 1893) on it!

So in honor of the Grand Grandma, here’s a Grand Watermelon.

And it’s 9:58 Mountain Time. Just barely made the deadline!!!

Standard disclaimer: I never show pictures of my own coins. I may or may not own coins like the ones I show. Burglars will be interested to hear that gold and silver aren’t the only heavy metals I have, and I have quite a bit of one with a heavier nucleus than either. And I keep it around a lot more than the gold and silver.

And a note to the other authors. Wikipedia URLs do paste into posts (select media style of paragraph via the plus sign, and use the option to paste in a URL). That’s how I did this Grand Watermelon picture–I noticed the option only after I had uploaded all of the pictures, having downloaded them from Wikipoo, and decided to give the alternate route a try with the Grand Watermelon. (I guess I wasted Wolf’s space.)

Obligatory PSAs and Reminders

Just two more things, my standard Public Service Announcements. We don’t want to forget them!!!

How Not To Find Yourself In Contention For The Darwin Award
(Nothing to do with bearded dragons)

It has been pointed out that all of the rioting is nominally on account of criminals who resisted arrest in one form or another, and someone suggested schools ought to teach people not to resist arrest.

Chris Rock on a similar vein, in 2007

Granted an “ass kicking” isn’t the same as being shot, but both can result from the same stupid act. You may ultimately beat the rap, but you aren’t going to avoid the ride.

China is Lower than Whale Shit

Remember Hong Kong!!! And remember the tens of millions who died under the “Great Helmsman” Chairman Mao.

I hope he’s doing OK!

中国是个混蛋 !!!
Zhōngguò shì gè hùndàn !!!
China is asshoe !!!

For my money the Great Helmsman is Hikaru Sulu (even if the actor is a dingbat).

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Deplorable Patriot

No, the mark of the beast is not a fairy tale. My HS New Testament teachers insisted it was symbolism. Whatever it is/was, the Gates vaccine isn’t it even if it is demonic.


“You think the mark of the beast was a bible fairy tale? Think again. They’re going to into inject you with “luciferase”.”


Not me…

I’m not taking their zombie vaccine… and the most beautiful part is, they can’t make me 😁


And we also did not think the gubmint could shutdown any business at anytime or mandate mask wearing. But here we are. Whether or not they could force a vaccine on you I would say depends on where you live. There are clearly jurisdictions in this country that would allow it. And police forces that would enforce it.


“And we also did not think the gubmint could shutdown any business at anytime or mandate mask wearing. But here we are.”


Two separate issues.

Any business that consents to a business license has consented to dance at the end of the government’s puppet strings.

The entire concept of ‘licensing’ needs to be scrapped and find another way, because it’s purely a control and fee issue wielded expressly for state tyranny and revenue collection.

If we consent to a ‘license’, we consent to doing whatever the government tells us to do, or they can withdraw your license.

The second issue is simpler.

I don’t go on man-dates, and they can’t make me 😁

Why does anyone comply with the lawless mask decrees?

Nobody ever answers that question.

Yes, some people have to, if they wish to continue their present employment, and I understand that.

For everyone else, or for everyone while they are not at work and subject to the rules of their employer, why wear the mask?

I have only had to wear a mask in two situations, both doctors:

1) my family physician (more specifically, one of his employees) would not allow me in the building without a mask, which she handed me, with her bare hands, which I was then supposed to put up to my face. Hope her hands were clean, after she touched the filthy doors with the same hands that held the mask…

Once inside, during the pre-exam questions with a different assistant, I said “We don’t have to wear the mask inside right? I’m not a mask-Nazi.”

Her eyes got real big and she said “Oh yes, we have to keep it on!”.

So I left it on, but I’m constantly testing, constantly forcing the issue to be explained or defended.

Then my doctor came in, wearing a full N95 respirator strapped to his cranium, looking like a complete goof.

And I wasn’t about to miss this opportunity, either.

So I said ‘The virus particles, virons, are incredibly small, much smaller than the filtration capability of even an N95 mask, right?’

He said ‘That’s true…’

And I said ‘So this whole mask thing is useless, it’s like putting up a chain link fence to stop mosquitoes, right?’.

And then he started lying to me, they same way little kids do, when they draw out their words to give them time to think of what they’re going to say.

He says ‘Well… what could happen is…’ and then the idea came to him, so he started talking faster… ‘see, the virus particle could attach to a dust particle, and the dust particle could be large enough to get filtered by the mask’.


Unfortunately he could tell by my expression, even with the mask on, that I wasn’t buying it for a second. If there is ANY virus present, then there must be millions of ‘virus particles’ present, and there is zero chance that ALL of them will attach to dust particles large enough to be filtered by the mask.

It’s stupid.

The only other time was, of all places, the dentist’s office, where the receptionist actually came out to my car while I waited in the parking lot, asked a bunch of questions, and then said I had to wear a mask through the Covid minefield between my car and the door to the building.

I’m happy to report there was no sniper fire, and no Covid landmines went off.

Once safely out of the dangerous Covid-strewn parking lot and inside the building, the mask came right off, because as it turns out, it’s very difficult to have your teeth examined with a MASK on 😁

I spoke extensively with my Dentist about the Covid insanity, throughout the entire appointment, it was practically the only thing we talked about, and he agreed it was insanity, he had even watched some Congressional hearing during his lunch break, and his assistant told me she had Trump flags all over her yard. 👍😁

I suspect my Dentist needed people to wear the masks when entering the building, because if anyone reports that people are NOT wearing their masks as they enter the building, his LICENSE may be in jeopardy.

License = Control

I didn’t wear a mask to go to my polling place on election day. It was at a police station, with a big sign on the door saying “Masks required beyond this point”.

Walked right past it. Nobody said a word.

Signs at Stop ‘N Go say you need a mask. Yet somehow the door still works, and I walk right in without a mask, and nothing happens to me. It’s more or less the same everywhere else I go.

In the past year I have only been challenged twice, once at Stop ‘N Go, where the clerk said something I couldn’t hear (behind his full face shield and plexiglass wall sitting on the counter), which he repeated, “Your mask, you’re not wearing your mask.”

I said ‘Oh, I never wear one, I think this whole thing is a political fraud, a hoax on the American people.’ Then the guy in line behind me pulled his mask off and smiled real big, and said “That’s what I think too!” 😂

The other time was at a carry-out sandwich shop, where the checkout girl asked “Do you have a mask?” while I was handing her my credit card.

It was an interesting question, which made me wonder if ownership of a mask was a condition for the transfer of food from the possession of the restaurant to myself. I also wondered what good would it do to put a mask on at that point, after we were already engaged in a face-to-mask conversation.

I just said “No, I don’t.”

She handed my food to me, smiled from behind her mask, and said “Thank you, please come again!” 😁

There is just about no place I have to go, besides the doctor’s office or the dentist’s office, where I have to wear a mask, so I don’t. And if I go somewhere that I don’t have to enter, like a grocery store or a hardware store, etc., and someone forces the issue, I’ll take my business somewhere else.

I have to say, in my experience over the past year, not wearing a mask has really been a non-issue, for the most part.

I don’t wear it, and almost nobody says anything to me about it.

Last edited 1 year ago by scott467

Remember Dictator Brown not only fined the beauty shop 14,000 but took away her business and I think did something with her beautician license.


My concern is the willingness of business and people in general to comply without question.


I technically work for state of Oregon. Brown has said she will not open state back up until 75% are vaccinated.

WIll say I know many state employees that will probably walk off job first. Most are in law enforcement. Should get interesting

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

This shows the terrible effects of an absent media. The Fake News Media’s slavish devotion to “vaccine acceptance culture” prevents them from doing the most basic due diligence on mRNA and DNA vaccines, and not a single one puts forth the obvious truth that NONE of the vaccines have been tested for long-term oncogenic, teratogenic, contraceptive, and second-generation reproductive effects.


I’m just sitting here tapping my finger trying to think of a business that doesn’t require a license to operate. Unless it’s some college kids mowing lawns or shoveling snow. I agree that the licensing thing needs an overhaul, so it’s not just a way to hassle people for $$. But standards are usually a good thing.

I have noticed that all the mask signs here now have small print disclaimers, so you actually don’t have to wear one if it would be detrimental to your health. Cover their asses.


That makes me think of Chinese Christmas lights. 😀


“I’m just sitting here tapping my finger trying to think of a business that doesn’t require a license to operate.”


The word ‘require’ is a word that is often used without much consideration, and we’re conditioned to accept it that way.

And we shouldn’t be.

Our entire world revolves around things we act as if we’re ‘required’ to do, or which the ‘system’ strongly implies we’re ‘required’ to do, but we’re not, actually.

Yes, it will usually be less convenient to do it another way, that’s by design, so the herd will all choose the path of least resistance.

Car insurance is one example. It’s common knowledge that everyone is ‘required’ to have car insurance, at least liability insurance.

But you’re not, actually.

You can obtain a bond in lieu of insurance.

And there are a variety of reasons why someone might choose to do so, including not wanting to use a SSN, as part of a conscious effort to unplug from the matrix.

Another item most people believe they are ‘required’ to have is a license to get married.

People should look into how that came to be, and why, and whether it makes any sense today. I think you will find that a ‘license’ is a permission granted by some governing authority to engage in some activity which would otherwise be illegal. The classic example is James Bond, ‘007’, who had a ‘license’ to ‘kill’.

But there is nothing illegal about getting married.


And there certainly wasn’t anything illegal about getting married when Adam and Eve were married.

But between then and now, there were ‘miscegenation laws’, which made it illegal for people of different races to marry. If two people of different races wanted to marry, they had to obtain a ‘license’, a permission from the governing authority, in order to do so.

The miscegenation laws have long since been repealed, and yet for some reason, nearly everyone obtains a marriage license today before they get married.

It’s hard to imagine a worse idea, it seems to me. A marriage is a contract. Why would anyone want the State to be part of a 3-way contract in your marriage?

I wonder what rights the State obtains via that contract?

There must be some reason why the State can determine who pays whom alimony in the case of divorce, and how much, and for how long. And there must be some reason why the State gets to determine who has custody of any children (99% of the time, under the current system, it’s the mother — but that was definitely not always so!). The State can even take your children away, if the State perceives that you are not treating their property properly.

I wonder how the State gained all that power and control over your marriage, the potential dissolution of a marriage, the division of marital assets, the custody of children, etc.?

I wonder if it had anything to do with that 3-way contract, when the State became entwined with the union between yourself and your spouse, when you obtained that little thing called a ‘license’?

Everything about the ‘system’ is designed to funnel you INTO the ‘system’. It started small, it always does, but now we’re tied down by it like Gulliver was by the Lilliputians.

If people don’t want to be a part of the ‘system’ (to a greater or lesser degree), there are ways to disengage from it. There are choices. One of the main problems is that People cannot make informed choices, if they don’t even know they have a choice…


scott, there are instances of an individual wishing to sell or be a Dealer, where w/o a required license that person is fined and jailed. I can think of at least one defensive tool, which as odious as the Law may be…if it’s dealers all went to jail, there would be a serious shortage of desired product.

I understand that this licensing’s origin is faulty, but it’s hard to imagine, what w politics as they are, any serious modification of these controls falling by the wayside. For such a family business to continue to exist, these folk have no choice.
I for for one am happy that my dealers are in compliance, as hateful as that compliance may be. And it is Really Hateful.


I have no more expectation of convincing anyone than I would of convincing a Leftist that his worldview was more twisted than a bad LSD trip.

We’re all part of this mind-control ‘matrix’ in one way or the other, none of us are immune to it, some of us just see certain aspects of it better than others, and vice-versa.

I can’t open anyone’s eyes to the truth, not really, any more than I can open someone’s eyes to the truth about God’s Word.

A person has to want to find the truth.

If they do, then on some subjects I might be able to point in the right direction, but a person has to want to find it.

It’s the same with this.

The things which I am saying in the previous post are going against an entire lifetime of indoctrination and personal life experience.

I realize that.

There is nothing I could possibly say in a blog post that is going to overcome that.


While I partially agree with you, the 3 way partnership used to be with the Church. And the church made all of the decisions the State now makes. And before that, for N. European peoples at least, it was the priests and the law speakers who got involved in that.


“While I partially agree with you, the 3 way partnership used to be with the Church.”


Just swapping tyrants then.

What business is it of any church belonging to Jesus Christ?

Where is the Scriptural Authority?

And if there isn’t any, then by definition, is it not of men, rather than God?


“And the church made all of the decisions the State now makes.”


I don’t know which church you are referring to, but it sounds hardly any different than the State, tyrannical and corrupt, without any Authority in God’s Word to be involved in any of it.

Are we free people, capable of handling our own affairs, or aren’t we?

We may certainly require assistance, a counselor of our own choosing for many things which are beyond our own expertise, but how is it we so often are in a position where it appears our only choice is to throw ourselves on the mercy of the State (man, does that ever sound like a bad idea!) and hope for the best?


“And before that, for N. European peoples at least, it was the priests and the law speakers who got involved in that.”


Are you referring to Judaism?

Are priests of the Jewish religion not required to be descendants of the tribe of Levi?

If the genealogical records were destroyed, presumably when the second temple was destroyed, and there is no way to definitively prove who is a Levite, then how can anyone in the Jewish religion obtain the office of priest, without transgressing against God and the Law of God?

If you are referring to Christians, I can find the requirements in God’s Word which a man must meet to become a deacon, and the qualifications to become an elder (a.k.a. bishop) — which include being the husband of one wife and the father of at least one child — but where is the authority in God’s Word, for a separate priestly class in the Lord’s church?

Is such a title or position of God, or is it of men?

Back to marriage.

Marriage is a contract, between a Man and a Woman, and nobody else.

Unless the Man or the Woman (or both) are incompetent, in need of a Ward (of the State) or a Guardian (of the State), to handle their affairs for them, why don’t the Man and the Woman simply write a marriage contract?

Why should they involve the State, or the church, or anyone else in their marriage?

Work out a contract that is agreeable to both of you, while you are both in love and looking forward to your future together.

Think about the unfortunate possibility of divorce, and the terms under which it would be acceptable for either party to break the union, and write it in the contract.

Also decide the terms and conditions under which alimony, if any, would be paid, and by whom, and if there are children produced by the marriage, who would have primary custody, or whether it would be equally shared custody, and the schedule of visitation, etc.

Do all of these things when you are happy, wanting to be generous toward each other, before you get married, rather than in the bitter acrimony of a potential future separation.

Sign the contract.

Get married.

The institution of marriage was created by God for a Man and a Woman, it has existed since Adam and Eve, thousands of years before the Lord’s church existed.

The marriage vows are between you and your spouse, made before God. What does any of it have to do with the State — or with the church?

It’s a simple question, isn’t it?

So you have a lawful contract, which is binding.

Suppose at some point in the future, one of the stipulated conditions for sufficient cause for divorce occurs, and the husband and wife decide to divorce.

The contract is still in force.

If either party violates the terms of the contract, the injured party can take the other party to court to get the terms of the contract enforced, the same as any other contract dispute.

But the parties to the contract don’t turn their entire lives over to a judge, to make decisions over marital assets and custody and financial support and all the rest of it.

The judge has no part in any of that, because the State is not a party to the marriage, because the Man and the Woman did not obtain any ‘marriage license’ from the State making the State a partner in their marriage.

And because the Man and Woman have a lawful contract, which has already determined these issues, which were agreed to by both parties to the contract.

Do you see?

In that scenario, the State’s only role is to enforce the lawful terms of the contract.

And not one thing more.

In many states there is a ‘cooling off’ period of up to a year or more, before a divorce is ‘granted’ by the State.

Where did the State get that power over your lives?

The State obtained that power and authority when you consented to the State’s ‘license’ scheme.

If you did not get a marriage license, and the permissible cause for divorce as outlined in the marriage contract is met, then you have control over your life and your future, instead of some anonymous, faceless bureaucrat judge.

We are free people, with the God-given right to self-determination, and yet every direction we turn, traps have been set for us, to control even the most personal details of our lives.

That is not by the design of our Founding Fathers.

And it is not by the design of the Lord.

It is by the design of men, lusting after power and control and money.

We are under no obligation to consent to their schemes.

But how can we avoid them, if we are not even aware of them, if we just do what everybody else does, because that’s what everybody does?


LOL Judaism is not remotely what I am speaking of. That’s not an indigenous faith to Europe. I’m speaking of Pre-Christain spirituality. Which also had priests and lawyers of a sort. Only the priests had the power to impart sentences and enforce contracts.


I had a sore throat and cough so work sent me for a covid swab. I rang my doctors receptionist and told her that I would needs a certificate from the doctor for a couple of days as I was symptomatic. She said to ring the doorbell and she would bring it out. As it happened a polite person held the door for me so I waltzed right in. The receptionist looked equally horrified and outraged and rushed from behind her plexiglass ramparts to hand me the paper. I was wearing a mask, in public whilst awaiting test results, she was wearing one. Chill the fuck out woman


“Whether or not they could force a vaccine on you I would say depends on where you live.”


I think that’s going to be one *&^% of a court fight, no matter where one lives.

And that doesn’t even take into account the ‘optics’.

Imagine, hundreds of “Elian Gonzalez” moments, with SWAT teams in full paramilitary gear busting in to peoples’ homes with real machine guns pointed at women and children, with Dr. Mengele right behind them, jamming needles into helpless screaming people and crying children.

How many times does anyone think that’s going to take place, before government officials start getting shot in the face?

All we have to do — all we have ever had to do — is simply say “We’re not gonna take it”.

America is not a prison, we are a Free People, and there is no way in *&^$ that some government bureaucrat can hold you down and jam a needle in your arm.

It’s simply NOT happening.

And if everyone simply had that mindset, instead of reacting in fear, we wouldn’t be in this mess.


“There are clearly jurisdictions in this country that would allow it. And police forces that would enforce it.”


I would like to see them try.

Make them do it.


Make them use force against you, and make sure it’s all on tape, because before this is over, that tape is going to make you a multimillionaire.

And when those tapes go viral on the Interwebs, showing women and children being terrorized by government GOONS and stormtroopers, the politicians who ordered these assaults on Americans won’t last a week.

I don’t know what happened to people, that caused them to forget who has the power in our country, and who doesn’t.

All we need to do is STAND UP and say NO.


Last edited 1 year ago by scott467
Linda Harrison

I do believe you are incorrect about mandatory vaccines. “A provision in the Patriot Act, and follow up acts, allows for the government to declare a national medical emergency and force a vaccination on anyone, or if you refuse, they can jail you until… ” this was from a simple google type search. Also while marriage licenses are not mandatory the marriage would not be legal. The license is provided to the clergy/Justice of Peace who then applies for the certificate of marriage.

Marriage licenses used to require a blood test, birth certificate or some type of identification, proof of relationship to partner or lack thereof.

I also believe that any “business” requires a business license and in some states teenagers mowing lawns.

In NY you cannot go inside a store without a mask – the mask Nazi’s are waiting for you at the door. Cuomo will have anyone arrested who does not follow the rules. The businesses/airlines etc do not want to be fined so they enforce the rules.


Patriot act is a BUSH thing….
and it is NOT Patriotic!


Of course not!
I was commenting about the “act”…
NOT her “reading”


“Nope it certainly isn’t.

Does that invalidate her reading of it?”


No, but the Constitution does invalidate the Patriot Act, if the Patriot Act is contrary to Rights and interests of WE the PEOPLE.

And if the (not)Supreme Court attempts to invalidate the Constitution, then We the People invalidate the (not)Supreme Court.

1) WE the PEOPLE are Sovereign, WE the PEOPLE are the highest Authority in our Republic, not our civil servants.

2) WE the PEOPLE founded this country.

3) WE the PEOPLE created the Declaration of Independence.

4) WE the PEOPLE created the Articles of Confederation

WE the PEOPLE fought and won a War for Independence.

Government didn’t do any of that for us, and neither did the Constitution, because it didn’t exist.

5) WE the PEOPLE then created the Constitution, to serve and protect US and our interests.

6) The Constitution in turn authorized the creation of the government.

That makes WE the PEOPLE (Sovereign) at least FOUR full levels of authority higher than the Constitution, and FIVE levels higher in Authority than the corrupt federal government.

The Constitution is a great document, but it is not holy, it was written by men, not by God.

It is created and bound to serve us, we do not serve it.

If it ceases to serve its purpose — which is primarily to protect our Rights, which it hasn’t really done since the Civil War — then WE the PEOPLE have every right to scrap it, and the corrupt government that connived their way around it, and start over.

As the Declaration of Independence — which WE the PEOPLE wrote — reminds us.


“I do believe you are incorrect about mandatory vaccines. “A provision in the Patriot Act, and follow up acts, allows for the government to declare a national medical emergency and force a vaccination on anyone, or if you refuse, they can jail you until… ” this was from a simple google type search.”


You are inadvertently proving my point very well, i.e., how well we are conditioned to be our own mental jailors.

It’s a wonder we’re not all in actual slave chains, instead of just mental ones.

It is immensely frustrating, because I know I am pushing a rock up a hill, and even though you don’t mean to, you believe it is your duty to roll that rock back down the hill, right over me. 😁

If the Patriot Act says Sen. Rubio can hit you in the head with a hammer, does that make it lawful?

I suppose it might make it legal, at least until he tried to do it, or until it was challenged — but it would be challenged, and it would be overturned.

The same scenario applies with regard to forced vaccinations.

Just because corrupt people in Congress pass a law and a corrupt president signed it, doesn’t mean it is lawful.

It certainly hasn’t been tested yet.

And if the government tries to vaccinate anyone against their will, you can be sure it is going to be challenged all the way to the (not)Supreme Court, if necessary.

Which it probably would be, because we can’t seem to find anyone, at any level of the courts, who isn’t corrupt.

And since the (not)Supreme Court itself is corrupt more often than not, they may support forced vaccinations. Tragically, we have to prepare for that possibility. The (not)Supreme Court supported the mass-murder of at least 60 million babies (and counting), so they’re liable to do just about anything.

If they do support forced vaccinations, then they have declared war on the Constitution and on the American People, it is a grotesque violation of our freedom and our rights, and so the section of the Declaration of Independence about overthrowing a tyrannical government is brought into sharp focus.

And you either STAND UP, or you kneel down and accept the chains.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

“This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.”
Abraham Lincoln, inaugural address, March 4, 1861


“Also while marriage licenses are not mandatory the marriage would not be legal.”


What is ‘legal’ and who decides?

Are we a monarchy or a Republic?

I think this whole ‘mask’ psy-op has really confused a lot of people.

We have RIGHTS and free will, and that includes the right to marry someone who consents to marry you.

There is no ‘legal’ or ‘illegal’ about it, beyond laws against incest or similar, which like all such laws of which I am aware, trace back to Scripture, the same source of Authority (God) Who created the institution of marriage.

Even a ‘common law’ marriage, where two people have lived together as Man and Wife (for 7 years, IIRC) is ‘legal’. Not only was there no marriage license involved, there wasn’t even a ceremony or a vow taken.


“The license is provided to the clergy/Justice of Peace who then applies for the certificate of marriage.”


So much process… did anyone question any of it, at any point, along the way?

Who created the institution of marriage?


Where does God require that you obtain any license or certificate or other trinkets from civil government, to make His institution ‘legal’?

What is a ‘certificate’?

What does it ‘certify’, and to whom?

And for what purpose?

What benefit do you derive from it?

What if you don’t want to opt in to the government’s scheme?

Do you not have a choice?

Are you just a widget on an assembly line?

Regardless of who ‘provides’ the ‘license’, why do you want one?

Is there a reason?

Or is it just because that’s what everybody does?

Because I have seen a lot of things that most everybody does — and just between you and me — I’m not sure some of those things are very smart, or very well thought out…

A ‘license’ is a permission from some governing authority to engage in some activity that would otherwise be unlawful.

Is getting married unlawful, such that you should require any ‘permission slip’ from some local or national government, to get married?

I am not aware of any law against getting married, not even the miscegenation laws exist any longer, which led to the license scheme in the first place, so what’s really going on here with this ‘license scheme’ today?

Who benefits from it?

Someone is benefiting from it, or it wouldn’t exist.

If you’re not sure who, then chances are, it ain’t you 😁

If it’s not you, then why would you do it?

What is your benefit, for consenting to this government scheme?

After all, it’s a contract, it’s an agreement, documents are signed, attestations are made, so there has to be consideration, they have to give you something in exchange for your consent, even if it’s just a cheap souvenir like a plastic Mickey Mouse with a ‘made in China’ sticker on the bottom.

So what are you getting, in return for consenting to their government scheme?

For one thing (and possibly the only thing), you obtain the benefit and immense privilege to file taxes jointly.

Oh, for joy! 😂

As Peggy Lee might say, if that’s all there is my friends, then let’s keep dancing...

Whatever you might save on taxes, is it worth giving up control over your lives by opting in to the State’s scheme? Or would you be better off forgoing the tax incentive, maintaining control over your own life and your own future?

If you sign a private marriage contract, and have someone (a preacher, a friend, a family member, or a complete stranger willing to do it) conduct your wedding ceremony, and you say your vows before man and God, and the presiding individual says I pronounce you Man and Wife — are you not married, certainly in God’s eyes?

Who do you grant power and authority to decide whether you are married or not?

Whose eyes do you care more about?

God’s eyes?

Or Toby’s eyes, down at the local license bureau?

We are not prisoners, and we are not slaves 😁

We don’t need approval or revenue generating schemes from the government to live our lives as we see fit. Are we not FREE to pursue happiness, however we choose to do so, so long as we are not causing harm to anyone else?

Deplorable Patriot

I’m not going to get into the marriage license thing, because for the Church it is a Sacramental Covenant.

BUT, unfortunately, I’m very much afraid a SCOTUS case from the 1920s may well be used as precedent to justify forcible vaccines, as at one time the states would forcibly sterilize people:


Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927), is a decision of the United States Supreme Court, written by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., in which the Court ruled that a state statute permitting compulsory sterilization of the unfit, including the intellectually disabled, “for the protection and health of the state” did not violate the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.[1] The Supreme Court has never expressly overturned Buck v. Bell.[2]…

Sterilization rates under eugenic laws in the United States climbed from 1927 until Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U.S. 535 (1942). While Skinner v. Oklahoma did not specifically overturn Buck v. Bell, it created enough of a legal quandary to discourage many sterilizations. By 1963, sterilization laws were almost wholly out of use, though some remained officially on the books for many years. Language referring to eugenics was removed from Virginia’s sterilization law, and the current law, passed in 1988 and amended in 2013, only authorizes the voluntary sterilization of those 18 and older, after the patient has given “written consent” and the “doctor” has informed the “patient” of the “consequences” as well as “alternative methods of contraception”

Forget the Patriot Act. THIS is the more potent avenue, IMO.

Linda Harrison

Thank you.


Oregon Dictator Brown says state will not open back up until 75% of Oregonians are vaccinated with COVID vaccine. .
Not me !!!!
Nope Nope

Linda Harrison

I was trying to reply to Scott – sorry I couldn’t figure out how to remove this.

Last edited 1 year ago by Linda Harrison

This crazy paranoid lady aint taking no COVID vaccine,

Harry Lime

Rest In Peace, Harold Budd.

One of my favorite ambient musicians to listen to and relax to passed away this past Tuesday. I can’t count how many times I played one of his CD’s while wearing headphones (remember those?) and catching up on some reading or sketching…

Deplorable Patriot

So, Ron, our favorite Code Monkey has been busy this morning posting photos of American officials with various CCP officials. So far we have:


Jim Mattis

Ruth Bader-Ginsburg (no John Roberts, and Ron said he looked)

ZERO active duty four star brass


All States trade with China. We all have stuff made in China in our homes. This ain’t news.


^^^ Precisely the perspective D-rats want folks to believe in.

NOTHING innocent about it. ChiComs buying off politicians.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

AMERICA FIRST!!!  🇺🇲  🇺🇲  🇺🇲 


Usually post the shorter verson.
However I think more than ever we need to listen to John Wayne’s words that were spoken prior to great patriotic Americans sing “God Bless America”
From a time when people loved and cared about American, especially Hollywood!!
God Bless America John Wayne

John Wayne – The People

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Sure it is. Before Trump how often did you check to see if your product was made in China? More people are waking up and spreading the word. We can do our part and reject Chinese products, cut off CCP piggy bank. With this list of officials, we can question them and push back. This info needs to be repeated and spread far and wide. F China, especially after unleashing the WuFlu on the world. We all need to join together to take the CCP down. CHINA IS ASSHOE!

Linda Harrison

Have always done it since 1992 – I voted for Ross Perot. Remember “the giant sucking sound”? I have always tried to not buy from China, eventually it became almost impossible to avoid. Perot supported PDJT.


I had a retail clothing store and tried to carry domestic made goods entirely. Living in a rural area it became necessary to carry an import alternative to survive. And finally as N.American branded manufacturers moved to contract their production overseas, I could only carry cheap imports. Sad time and now US needs to learn how to produce things again.


When we no longer produce and are dependent on China the prices will go high.
I still find clothing made in US but pay for a good top $200 and a pair of shoes $250.
I just curtail my chopping and instead buying many outfits I buy two pieces per season and mix and match. I keep many of my clothe 20-30 years and no one knows because I buy timeless with here and there what is in style at the moment.
I find things repeat itself 🙂
I tried the way many buy clothing does not work for me cheap stuff does not last. I like things to last and still look like new.
Wall Mart is out for me.


singing, like wise…I almost have it down to seasonal uniforms, ha!
sure does make life easier.


Actually i was checking at least 75% of the time especially with cars back in 2000??
Was totally ticked to find out after the fact my Dodge Charger was made in Canada.


“All States trade with China. We all have stuff made in China in our homes. This ain’t news.”


And here’s the problem.

Suppose it was 1959, and the statement was “All States trade with Nikita Khrushchev’s Soviet Union. We all have stuff made in the Soviet Union in our homes. This ain’t news.”

You can bet your sweet bippy that it would have been news in 1959!

To have our country flooded with low quality, cheaply made garbage from the Soviet Union, our openly avowed enemy, in every home in America?

Displacing quality American made products, and American workers and whole industries?

Not even a tiny chance.

Is China not a hundreds of times the actual threat, right now, today, that the Soviet Union ever was?

Our states shouldn’t be trading with Communist China.

THAT’S the problem right there.

China (the CCP) never stopped being our enemy. Our political leaders just decided to commit Treason, to take CCP bribes, in order to wheel the Chinese Trojan Horse right into the heart of our country.

Last edited 1 year ago by scott467

Did you think the Swalwell deal was news?


Do I think politicians take payoffs, direct/indirect from countries, businesses. Of course. In many parts of the world it is considered standard. But as a Democrat, no one will hold them accountable.

Deplorable Patriot

NO, he’s not. There’s a number of others I would have expected to be there including mine.


Maybe his hubby is. Only half joking.


Polis and his other are hardcore gay mafia and wierd.

JW in Germany

Click on that 1st twitter link shared by Ron…a Chinese gold mine of American traitors…YES, I mean TRAITORS! No way in Hell that these people did not know what they were getting into with multi-million $$$ deals with the CCP.


Steve in Lewes

On the USSC ruling from yesterday. It wasn’t what everyone was hoping for, but it does shine light on more corruption that seems to be the objective of PDJT’s EO on election fraud and possible use of the Insurrection Act.

SD has an excellent article on the ruling in case no one has seen it.
This is an except.

From the Alliance:

  • An individual voter does not have standing to sue for election misconduct. (He/she is only one person and everyone cannot sue all the time for all elections.)
  • An official who may be adversely affected, cannot sue before an election in anticipation of bad conduct because it is speculative (not ripe)
  • An official who was adversely affected, cannot sue after an election claiming bad conduct because it is too late (latches)
  • A state does not have standing to sue on behalf of its citizens to remedy other states’ bad election conduct (no standing)

BTW – Sidney Powell filed a couple emergency appeals to the SC with a couple more to follow that will further test the ‘who has standing’ farce. She said these plaintiffs have standing…we shall see. Makes one wonder that they expected the SC result because of the immediate filing…..Oh yea! Makes one go  🤔 ! And this…fck  😷 ‘s!


The entire “standing” thing is a bad joke on justice.

Sort of like Comey invoking “intent” when he gave hildabeast a free pass.


Michigan attorney says vote flip happened due to computer program, not human error.
“Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson said it happened by human error. We discovered that’s not true, that’s a lie. It didn’t happen by human error. It happened by a computer program called Dominion Voting System[s],” Matthew DePerno said on Newsmax.



I didn’t realize it wasn’t already.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Day has always been, now Eve is too! Thank You President Trump! ❤❤❤

Deplorable Patriot

FABULOUS. I had more than one boss over the years who wouldn’t let us off on Christmas Eve. Not even early. And it screwed with a lot of family plans, assured those of us who were singing later, like at 10 pm or later, would not get a nap.

Deplorable Patriot

Lucky you. When I worked at the food bank, the boss there made us all stay because the grocery stores were open. Same thing with 10 inches of snow – around here, that will close the city down while MODOT digs us out – and four degrees. That woman thrived on being that sort of b!+c# even if she said she didn’t.


That is one thing I missed moving to US that stores do not keep Christian Holidays. I liked when growing us that stores closed at noon Saturdays till Monday.
All Holidays everything was closed and we has a first and second day Christmas and Easter. Pentecost was a Holiday also and everything was closed. I am not sure if things changed. There was a rhythm of time season and Holidays even though people worked hard it seement people had more time for family and friends or course church.




MAKES ME MAD AS ALL GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I wasn’t watching this so can’t verify but wouldn’t surprise me


JW in Germany


USA!  🇺🇸  USA!  🇺🇸  USA!!  🇺🇸 


BardsFM Livestream, 20201211 – Jericho



Political Theology Livestream – 20201212


General Flynn is going to be a guess on Maria Bartiromo’s program tomorrow – did not say what time – but, I am sure we will find it.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

9amCST Sunday Morning Futures


Thanks, Bfly!!!

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Am enjoying today’s DC rally. Good guest speakers intermixed with Faith leaders. Have been watching on Americas’s Voice. In case you’re not aware, they have news 24/7 just like Newsmax. Bannon’s WarRoom airs on this channel. F Fox News, I flip between these 2 sites and OANN.

Home – Real America’s Voice

Rally almost over, they’re fixing to march on the Supreme Court.


All of this is strategy. Did he provide those bureaucracies with enough time and justification in triplicate to do what they need to do when they need to do it. Which is now.

When the ODNI report is released in a few days, will the bureaucracies have the inertia to execute the plan outlined in the EO?

John Ratcliffe, Steve Minuchen, Mike Pompeo, Chad Wolf, Christopher C. Miller, and Bill Barr are the ones that hold our future in their hands.

Let’s MAGA.





mrbungle @mrbungle
I used to say it with some regularity, “Moving at the speed of bureaucracy!”
What I meant by that depended on the circumstance. Sometimes it was a way to laugh off how annoying bureaucracy was. How long it took them to do the simplest things.
Another sense was to encapsulate how we could always see where the government was going and take steps quick steps to avoid their plodding authoritarianism.
Listen to this interview with Seth J Levy aka “The Reckoning” on twtr.


About minute 42 he spends some time talking about DJT and his ability to hide his motives and deceive his opponents with his “persona” and other methods of misdirection.
As the New York developer he spent his entire life out gunning the complicated and petty New York bureaucracy at every level. I would say that dealing with bureaucracy is probably his primary skill set. A businessman creates his own bureaucracy to deal with the bureaucracy of other businesses, banks, subcontractors, tenants..
Dec 13, 2020, 07:45 · Web · 1 · 1


mrbungle @mrbungle
So if anyone understands the speed of bureaucracy it would be Donald J Trump. In the first sense he knows how long it takes them to do anything and in the second he can see them coming a mile away.
We know he saw them coming because he has told us and them in plain terms that their plans were transparent.
So my contention is that he can’t half understand bureaucracy. He must understand it in total to have achieved his goals. In fact bureaucracy navigation manipulation is his true mastery.

comment image



mrbungle @mrbungle
The second half of the Trump strategy is using the bureaucracy against the Swamp.
That is the ODNI foreign interference executive order strategy. For the past four years Trump has set bureaucracies in motion in his direction. At the DOJ, at the Treasury, at State, at FBI, at CIA, etc.
All of these bureaucracies needed time to get up to speed in the new direction. Are they up to speed and traveling in the direction that Bureaucrat Whisperer Trump wants them to?
We don’t know yet.

comment image



mrbungle @mrbungle
All of this is strategy. Did he provide those bureaucracies with enough time and justification in triplicate to do what they need to do when they need to do it. Which is now.
When the ODNI report is released in a few days, will the bureaucracies have the inertia to execute the plan outlined in the EO?
John Ratcliffe, Steve Minuchen, Mike Pompeo, Chad Wolf, Christopher C. Miller, and Bill Barr are the ones that hold our future in their hands.
Let’s MAGA.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎


That’s Ian Smith at Atilis Gym in Bellmawr. My general neck of the woods. 👍🏻


They love him. President Trump will be our leader for the next four years.



That must be fake. We all know that Biden got 99% of the military votes. /sarc

Cuppa Covfefe

Actually he got 199% of the military votes; as well as 100% of the Red Chinese Military votes…

To paraphrase “What A Fool Believes”, “Xi has a place in his life”…….

Last edited 1 year ago by Cuppa Covfefe

Steve, Another great Saturday Daily Open! Today’s eagle fits the mood of the US conservative populace quite well!

Really appreciate all the diagrams of the upcoming astronomy event.

We likely won’t be able to see it here with all the light pollution and flat lands.

Hope you are able to get a great view and maybe some photos to share.

Here is an old blog friend’s (Christian Harvard lawyer, Anglican Curmudgeon blog) research on the Bethlehem Star and Dates for Christmas.


I was impressed with his work. But what do I know. My opinion on this is as reliable/valuable as on US and Covid numbers.


PS – I still can’t like a Daily Post or access the replies from this page. Have to go to the profile page and click on notifications.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Georgia – you need to LOG IN – either to get a site password or log in with a WordPress password! I recommend using the login widget at the bottom of the right-hand sidebar. Top option is to use your WordPress account. Bottom option is to use a site account. You may have to check your spam folder for email, if/when you register.


Wolf, I’m sure you’re getting sick of seeing this. I have the same issue and I am logged in with my WP account. The only way I know I have replies to comments is if I use the “Reader” link Wheatie posted a few days ago. I can see the bell in the upper right corner, but when I click on it, it’s the spinning wheel of death.


I have that same spinning wheel of death, Katie 😁👍

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Same questions for you – device, browser, ad-blockers or restrictions on scripts, etc.?

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

What device are you on?
What browser are you using?
Does it have any kind of privacy software or ad blockers?


Not sure about the ad blocker. We also just added Norton anti-virus and a VPN so there’s lots of “glitchy” bugs to work out. I think it’s turned off.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Yup. Nobody can get the bell to work on iPhone, iPad or MacBook. I will try to research this – it must be a known issue.


THANK YOU! At least I know I’m in good company 🙂

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

You’re welcome. I just researched this, and discovered that it’s a basic iOS problem. “Push Browser Notifications” are not supported on iOS. There are some apps that work via a plugin on the site, but they look godawful – giant blue pop-ups in the center of the screen for each comment – clearly not what you want.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

FYI, I turned on Notifications for WordPress. Doesn’t fix the bell problem. I get a sound and message on main screen when someone replies to me. Turning off, annoying.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Are you able to view the DESKTOP version of this site? I’m curious if the bell works there!


No idea how to view the desktop version – sorry for my lack of techie understanding. I can tell you that the bell notifications worked just fine with the iPad on the old site. So is it a limitation with the new site?

As I mentioned earlier, the bell notifications work fine on this link from Wheatie: https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/110554433

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Wolf, she’s on a MAC. It’s the Idevice incompatibility. I can’t like on phone, pad using Safari either. I have to go into the WP app.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Here is a question you may be able to research. On your iPhone, can you get the bell notifier to work, if you log into wqth.wordpress.com, using either Safari or Brave?


I know this was directed to bflyjesusgrl but I just checked my iPhone and there’s no bell on either theqtree.com or with.wordpress.com. Altho unless I’m missing something, there are no comments on the old site so don’t know if that would affect the showing of the bell or not.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Try reloading this site on iPhone. I just updated the mobile theme to use “AMP” which is more mobile-friendly.


No luck. I’m bell-less. Sniff. Maybe someone else will have better luck.


No luck. I’m bell-less. Sniff. Maybe someone else will have better luck. 

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Please change it back. Mobile version SUCKS. No Bell, get comment box, which does nothing when clicked. AMP button to switch DOES NOT WORK. Have to scroll FOREVER to bottom to go back to desktop version.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

OK – just got back – will do.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎


Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Is it fixed yet? Should be by now.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎


Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Good! That was a real “Hail Mary”!

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

How can you test the Bell if you can’t find it??
How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?? 🙃🙃🙃

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

I blame Tim Cook and Hillary Clinton!

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎


Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Appreciated! 😀

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

OK – try it now – see if I’ve turned it off.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

All better! Thank You, Now I can rest. 😴☺🤗❤

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

NOPE. It just spins in Safari. Only way to see notifications is to use the Reader in the downloaded WP app. If you select Gravatar in Safari and select notifications, it takes you to the reader also and you can reply. BUT in the reader you cannot LIKE the POST or See the comments on a Post.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Sorry I didn’t see WQTH. Yes it works on that site.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Interesting – this means WordPress servers are not third-party – makes sense.

OK – I have ONE idea that might work, based on that. It’s an iPhone setting buried in the deepest bowels of Safari.

Experimental Features
Disable Full 3rd-Party Cookie Blocking

This thing (enabling 3rd-party cookies) is what got rid of spinning for many people for a long time.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

This is a reply from bell notification on old site using safari.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

NP, been helping with the Idevice issues since day 1, since I have the combo.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Yup. WordPress servers. JetPack notifications are third-party to the new site!

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Another wierd thing. In the WP Reader, we can follow theqtree.com site. We can Read a Post, Like it, but cannot view any comments. Comment button is grayed out. I assume because it is not a WP site? Maybe why bell doesn’t work?

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Let me look at reader……

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

I didn’t even see a way to look at comments in my reader in a browser (Brave) – not even a grayed-out button. BUT – while in Reader (not in iOS, to be clear), I clicked on a comment in notifications from the same post, and it loaded a page with the post (today’s daily) PLUS comments. So I can get to them through the JetPack notifier, but not in Reader itself, oddly.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

I’ve seen a grayed out comment box – no comments allowed, a black one – noone’s commented yet, or none – no comments allowed, under the Posts in Reader. And yes you cannot comment on a Post there, but you can in the bell drop down box, only if there is something to reply to. It is weird. So Jetpack works on a non WP site in Windows, but not IOS? And we can’t comment in the Reader on the new site, but we can reply through Reader notification Bell. 😵😵😵

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

No bell on Iphone on NEW SITE. Display isn’t wide enough. Can see Gravatar top right and that’s all. Ipad larger display has bell.

Old site has Bell on Iphone. 😜

Last edited 1 year ago by bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎
Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

What if you tip the phone?

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎


bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

And I have the 8 PLUS, the big one. Only one bigger is new Pro Plus.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Did you try allowing 3rd party cookies under Settings / Safari / “advanced” / “experimental”? Not sure if that comment got through. My computer went kinds nuts.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Default is Allowed.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Let me be very clear b/c this sounds like a different default on yours – “Disable Full 3rd-Party Cookie Blocking” is GREEN?

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Not Green.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Good – then GREEN means “disabling the default of blocking”, which means enabling access to third-party cookies. So trying green will mean letting it get to your WordPress cookies, which was always the key on Brave to getting spinning to stop.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

All I see is Disable Full 3rd-Party Coo. Disabling the Cookies is DIFFERENT than Disabling Cookie Blocking!!! I’ll set it to Green.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Interesting – maybe my display font is smaller.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

LOL, it’s bigger on IPAD. I can see the whole thing 😁

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

Deleted website data and history, set to green, went to qtree, no change. Bell spins.
BUT the change you made earlier is FUNKY. Site opens in mobile mode, with Howdy Butterfly and weird comment box. AMP button to switch does NOT work. FInally scrolled and scrolled and scrolled to bottom of site to find ‘exit mobile version’. That reloads site with normal gravatar and bell. PLEASE PUT BACK to open in non moblie.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

OK – will do!!!

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Try reloading on the iPhone. I just changed the mobile theme to be more current.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

No help.


I have to do the same thing – so I never no if someone has replied. It’s fine though – don’t want to stress anyone.


But I did prove that wrong. There has not been an increase in deaths. I posted links and everything. 🙂


Hi Aubergine

Which day was it that you posted the links? I would like to get to the bottom of the “excess deaths” situation. Thanks


So one link was to this .pdf of World Mortality from the U.N. It’s harder to change a .pdf doc that is out in the wild, so I trust it more than other sources. It reports the number in sort of an odd way as 2909 thousands for 2019:


The other link was to the United States Death Clock. It reports the numbers by state, so I had to add them all up. Sorry, I don’t remember the exact figure, but it was 2780-ish thousands as I recall it.


If I can locate the original post, I will send you the link.

If I can find the or


Your first link shows only past deaths from 2009-2019 – shows no deaths from 2020.

From your 2nd link,
“Note: Numbers on this page do not include deaths due to COVID-19. Our estimates are based on deaths reported before the pandemic started. Check our coronavirus section for information about daily and total deaths caused by the virus.”

Your link is Not a count of actually deaths. Your link takes previous year’s deaths and projects expected deaths for this year. Your link literally states that the numbers are not real, actual deaths but are projected/expected deaths. This is not a list of facts but of expected deaths based on pevious years.

SMH … Facts mater and that is now what these posts are.

If this is a source you trust, here is there Covid 19 data which only addresses wuflu deaths and not excess deaths.




Name calling and yelling in all caps does not distract from the fact that you did not address your own links clear, unqualified statement that the deaths they are counting are not literal deaths but projected deaths.


And it’s funny, but I never got any response to that post at all from the stealth-troll who keeps posting the covid fear-porn here.


Not everyone goes back through threads to search for possible replies to older comments. Assuming that all read all replies is incorrect.


Never would have thought posting data backing up exactly what I am saying was “controversial”!

Sorry I left you hanging.

Had no idea I was “beating a dead horse”.

Sometimes when I address an issue a 2nd or 3rd time I am simply assuming that the author of the comment hasn’t seen the first time/place I addressed especially if it is a different commenter.

We frequently see commenters repeat posts and news and links that have been posted once or twice or even many times before which shows us that many don’t read the full threads before posting. If they haven’t read the full threads, then many could easily have missed the info on a previous page.

We have a core group that reads every thread, every day, or at least almost every thread, almost every day.

However, many read occassionally and they could just have missed the first discussion of the topic. After all, why would somone post a “fact” that has already been shown to be untrue? the very act of posting incorrect info leads me to assume they are unaware there is countering information or that what they are posting is simply wrong/fake news according to other sources.

I now see that some cling to certain “facts” … why? Any insights?



Good call not to speculate although I figured this was a back water old thread that no one would notice. But must assume nothing is secret that is posted on the internet! 🙂


We had a homeschool day on Saturday and then major Christmas shopping day (online – but still busy and fun … esp. as son is now catching on that I probably knew about past purchases from amazon and now he is trying to be more sneaky when he is being Santa’s helper) and then made Christmas cookies and fruitcake (yes, it won’t cure very long but it will still be good).

So, yes, I disappeared … busy day in by offline world.

Anyway, I will be more away, esp. the day off. Might scan back through at the end of the day to be on the safe side.

Surprising how personal people take differing opinions. Guess I will expect that from now and stopped being surprised!


I rarely can “stick around” as I hope on to scroll/scan for news and updates and deep dives into topics I can’t find anywhere else but am not just hanging out. Homeschooling, for example, and son is reading a section of text or doing a worksheet or taking a quiz so I have a few minutes to visit news sites. Or sitting down for a break from cooking, cleaning or to drink a cup of coffee. Not able to be here for long extended periods of time … except in the night when I can’t sleep like tonight! ha

Sometimes a Real suprise to me to see what turns out to be controversial.

I guess I came to the conservative treehouse back in the days of friendly chat but also a focus on searching for facts, regardless of where they lead.

When I am attacked for posting, “No, we have no excess deaths and here are the #s & here are the links where I got the #s”, I just think commenters will think, “thanks” because they want to learn, be accurate and move on. Why get hung up on defending fake news? How is that productive?

I will keep this page open on my side bar for a day or two and keep checking back.


I would have *wanted* to know about counter info, esp. had it been true and I had been wrong as I would want to know correct info for my own sake + to stop sharing wrong info in other locations online.

and that is why when I read that she said excess deaths had already been disproven I was immediately currious as to when/where/with what info.

Maybe I will take the time to figure out an account … but already have so many unread emails … not really want a notification each time. too busy already. guess I will just scan the the threads at the end of the day if I have made comments that day.


Yes. Probably she has notifications and so will now be upset that I “over posted” or spammed her. But didn’t think of that angle until after I replied in several place. I was thinking to post in several to make sure she would see it … but if she has notifications then that is not an issue as she will see it even in one place.




Yelling in all caps and childish name calling is not a substitute for actual conversation.

Calm down as you are missing facts, repeatedly.

I receive no bell notification as I do not sign in or have an account. I post as a guest. There is no bell notification option. If there is then say so and explain it.

When you cling to your “no excess deaths” fake news talking point do I call you names, curse, stamp my feet or yell in all caps? Of course not because I am a grown adult who is only interested in facts and truth so I simply correct the information, taking the time to explain in detail and back up my statements with linksk to the original data.

You would be more effective for MAGA to do the same. You have yelled, cursed and called names … and yet not addressed your “facts” or the fact that your links Literally do not say what you thought/think they say. Ineffective, weak and lazy on your part + emotionally immature.


How are facts “fear porn”? Truth has no agenda. Do you not want to be accurate? SMH

Skip the thing that is incorrect, focus on facts and move forward.




then stop posting fake facts regarding excess deaths

your choice to be triggered by facts or to deal with them head on without fear

the emotions your feel when dealing with facts are on you not the person telling you the facts


The links posted do not show what she thinks they show.

the link posted is an auto counter that takes projected deaths and runs an auto counter based on projected deaths for 2020.

the link even explains that is not counting/tracking literal deaths as reported in real time nor county 2020 deaths at all.


Today is 12/12. Remember POTUS tweets a while back that were related to those numbers?

Maybe significant, maybe not. <<SHRUG>>

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Please post – I don’t recall them!


Somewhere on page 2 i posted an article not on fox, if you want to fross reference.

bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎NUCLEAR MAGA😎

That was in the laptop email dump from October.

Plain Jane

Hope this goes through. I seem to have all possibilities of contact with qtree.

Great post.

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Are you going to the old site? https://theqtree.com is THE place now!

Deplorable Patriot

Note to California, Oregon and Washington land and forest management:

THIS is what responsible conservation looks like.


New article posted at Political Moonshine. Looks like it might be a good one 😁

The Only Bridge Between Reality and Hope: The US Military
December 12, 2020


Last edited 1 year ago by scott467

And they call POTUS fascist?

JW in Germany

“The FOIA release tonight conatining a subpoena for Seth Rich’s and his brothers devices implies they were the ones who leaked to Wikileaks. Holly shit. Just read

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Somebody turning up the heat on DODGE and FIB?




Henry Winkler is on the celebrity attendee list?

Fonzi is a commie?

Say it ain’t so, Fonzi!

Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy

Somebody jumped the shark!




The whole show backed Biden except for Scott Baio
Not sure who started the slamming but heard they were in heated slamming twitter fb and instagram ??? what ever you call that type of social media slam feast. .

Scott Baio is not happy with ‘Happy Days’ Democratic fundraiserhttps://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/entertainment/scott-baio-happy-days-trnd/index.html