2022·01·29 Joe Biden Didn’t Win Daily Thread

SPECIAL SECTION: Message For Our “Friends” In The Middle Kingdom

You knuckle-dragging barbarians are still trying to muck with this site, so I’ll just repeat what I said last time.

Up your shit-kicking barbarian asses. Yes, barbarian! It took a bunch of sailors in Western Asia to invent a real alphabet instead of badly drawn cartoons to write with. So much for your “civilization.”

Yeah, the WORLD noticed you had to borrow the Latin alphabet to make Pinyin. Like with every other idea you had to steal from us “Foreign Devils” since you rammed your heads up your asses five centuries ago, you sure managed to bastardize it badly in the process.

Have you stopped eating bats yet? Are you shit-kickers still sleeping with farm animals?

Or maybe even just had the slightest inkling of treating lives as something you don’t just casually dispose of?

中国是个混蛋 !!!
Zhōngguò shì gè hùndàn !!!
China is asshoe !!!

And here’s my response to barbarian “asshoes” like you:

OK, with that rant out of my system…

Loop it if you like; I will wait.

Richly deserved.

Justice Must Be Done

The prior election must be acknowledged as fraudulent, and steps must be taken to prosecute the fraudsters and restore integrity to the system.

Nothing else matters at this point. Talking about trying again in 2022 or 2024 is hopeless otherwise. Which is not to say one must never talk about this, but rather that one must account for this in ones planning; if fixing the fraud is not part of the plan, you have no plan.

Lawyer Appeasement Section

OK now for the fine print.

This is the WQTH Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Poltical correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines,  here, with an addendum on 20191110.

We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.

And remember Wheatie’s Rules:

1. No food fights
2. No running with scissors.
3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone.
4. Zeroth rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government get your guns.
5. Rule one of gun safety: The gun is always loaded.
5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty.
6. Rule two of gun safety: Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy.
7. Rule three: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
8. Rule the fourth: Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

(Hmm a few extras seem to have crept in.)

Spot (i.e., paper) Prices

Last week:

Gold $1831.80
Silver $24.31
Platinum $1043.00
Palladium $2194.00
Rhodium $17,650.00

This week, 3PM Mountain Time, markets have closed for the weekend.

Gold $1791.20
Silver $22.56
Platinum $1019.00
Palladium $2466.00
Rhodium $17,750.00

A major hammering for gold, silver and platinum. Conversely, palladium is going nuts again. I guess people are buying catalytic converters (with minor propulsive attachments so they can move around) again. Supposedly, everybody but everybody expects the Fed (I am fed up with the Fed) to raise interest rates. That suddenly makes dollars more attractive than they were last week, even though the rate of inflation hasn’t changed. Hence gold going down when you would think the dollar should be spiraling around the drain (of the toilet).

James Webb Space Telescope Update

OK, it’s all deployed, it’s in its orbit…so what comes next? What’s going to occupy the next five months?

Well, the telescope has to cool down. Yes, 348 degrees below zero F is not cold enough for those infrared sensors. It’s going to take a while. Heat can only be carried away three ways…conduction, convection, and radiation, and two of those are unavailable in space. The spacecraft isn’t touching anything else, so conduction won’t work, and it’s not fluid, so convection can’t work either. (Convection is the process that causes water near or at the boiling point to roil; heated water from the bottom of the pot rises, carrying the heat to the surface; cooler water at the top descends where it will get heated.) So what’s left is radiation, losing the heat by electromagnetic black body radiation. This is what causes an incandescent light bulb filament to cool off and stop glowing (in visible light) the moment you flip the light switch. Sometimes you can see it take a perceptible amount of time to dim. But that’s the heat in the filament being turned into light and radiating away.

A light bulb filament cools off fast, but that’s because it’s very hot. JWST is a mere 112 degrees (F) above absolute zero, so it will radiate much more slowly.

In fact, how much an object radiates is proportional to the fourth power of its temperature. An object at 100 degrees above absolute zero radiates sixteen times as much as one at 50 degrees above absolute zero. JWST, as it gets closer and closer to absolute zero, radiates less and less.

Besides just cooling JWST off, the instruments behind the mirror must be turned on and calibrated, but this can’t be done until the instruments cool down some more…though I believe at least some of them are close to their maximum operating temperature.

So, what can be done right now? The third thing: Mirror alignment. Here’s the last paragraph of the latest entry on the NASA JWST blog.

Next up: HD 84406! That is the first star Webb will point at to gather engineering data to start the mirror alignment process. The team chose a bright star (magnitude 6.7 at a distance of about 260 light-years, as measured by Gaia). The star is a sun-like G star in the Ursa Major constellation, which can be seen by Webb at this time of the year. This is just the first step; HD 84406 will be too bright to study with Webb once the telescope starts to come into focus. But for now, it is the perfect target to begin our search for photons, a search that will lead us to the distant universe.

NASA Blog: https://blogs.nasa.gov/webb/2022/01/27/the-webb-team-looks-back-on-successful-deployments/

It’s in astronomese. Fortunately I speak it well enough to translate. (It’s not just for professional astronomers; there are probably millions of amateur astronomers or just general geeky types who will have no problem reading that paragraph. But most here are not among them.)

Short translation: They’re basically going to point Webb at a particular star that’s fairly bright, and fiddle with the individual mirror segments to get them aligned with each other. The eighteen hexagons were all made to look as if they were cut from a parabolic mirror; they must be lined up to within nanometers of that parabolic shape. This is expected to take about three months

Longer translation: As above, but I’m going to do a deep dive on some of the specifics that will seem cryptic.

Let’s start with “HD 84406.” That’s a catalog number, the Henry Draper catalog. This catalog contains over 225,300 stars and was published between 1918 and 1924. (If you thought these posts were boring, go read the catalog. This is part of an index to it, and No, I have no idea why the numbers aren’t sequential: Henry Draper Catalogue – SKY-MAP)

[Annie Jump Cannon, who you might remember from one of my physics posts, was very heavily involved in the publication of this catalog and a couple of extensions to it that have come out since.]

Of course only about 6000 stars are bright enough to be visible to the unaided (naked) eye even far away from city lights, so clearly most of these Henry Draper stars are very, very dim.

“The team chose a bright star (magnitude 6.7…” OK they’re calling HD 84406 a “bright star” because it’s at “magnitude 6.7.” What does “magnitude 6.7” mean?

It’s a historical artifact. The brightness of astronomical objects is given in this funky magnitude scale. The lower the number, the brighter the star, so yes that seems backwards! This is because they would say something like “Spica is a first-magnitude star.” A “second-magnitude” star is clearly a lesser star than a “first magnitude” star. A “sixth magnitude” star was one that was just barely visible under ideal conditions.

Astronomers came up with instruments to objectively measure this sort of thing, however, and the magnitude scale got modified. In 1856 the modern scale was adopted, it was suggested by Norman Pogson at Oxford. Under his system, the scale is logarithmic and a star of magnitude X is 2.512 times as bright as a star of magnitude X+1. OK, so where did they pull that number from? Someone’s rectal database?

Actually that number is the fifth root of 100. Basically, a first magnitude star is 100 times as bright as a sixth magnitude star. That’s five “magnitudes” and it’s a logarithmic scale, so a single magnitude is going to be whatever number you can multiply by itself five times to get 100, i.e., the fifth root of 100, or about 2.512. (Remember, some people take an astronomy class in college because they are severely math challenged and have to take a science class to graduate and figure astronomy won’t have any math in it. But you can’t even describe stars’ brightnesses without logarithms-base-fifth-root-of-100. Bwahahaha!)

With a logarithmic scale, you can have fractional/decimal magnitudes, and more fun ensues. As it turns out many ancient “first magnitude” stars are actually considerably brighter than others. On the modern scale Sirius is -1.46 (a negative number), Arcturus is -0.04 (basically 0 on a 1-6 scale), Aldebaran is 0.85 and Spica is 1.04. Nor do you need to confine it to those little point-like stars in the night sky; nebulae, planets, the Sun and the Moon are on the scale too. The sun is magnitude -27. Sometimes, if you catch it just right the International Space Station is at -6. By the way, if it’s not a pointlike object, the magnitude is totaled up over the entire span of the object, so imagine the sun’s brightness in a single point (much more intense!), and that point is over ten billion times brighter than the point-source we call Sirius. When they describe the brightness of a nebula, it can seem misleadingly bright because the light from the nebula is smeared out over some patch of sky, rather than being gathered together in a point like a star is. So a nebula of a certain magnitude will always look fainter than a star of the same magnitude.

OK, so now when we see that HD 84406 is magnitude 6.7, we can judge that it’s actually not even visible to the unaided human eye! Yet they called it “bright” and even “too bright to study with Webb.”

[Note: some people (authors of books for amateur astronomers in particular) in very dark places (e.g., on the eastern slope of the “Big Island” of Hawaii) claim to be able to see clear down to magnitude 8. I’m not sure I believe them, to be honest.]

But if your eye’s pupil is 22 feet across, that actually will seem to be pretty damned bright! And that’s basically what JWST has going for it. So once they’re done using this blazingly bright star to align the mirrors, they won’t spend time looking at it any longer.

Next, “at a distance of about 260 light-years…” That’s the distance to the star, and a light year is the distance light travels in one year…about six trillion miles. 260×6 = 1560 trillion miles, that’s how far away HD 88406 is.

Next there’s this: “…The star is a sun-like G star in the Ursa Major constellation,” A “G star” is a reference to the star’s spectral class, which is to say the pattern of absorption lines in the spectrum; it so happens that G is the class the Sun is in. It’s mainly a rough shorthand for how hot the star is, and hence what color it is. Yellowish-white is the G type color. “In the Ursa Major constellation” means if you look at the Big Bear constellation, HD 88406 appears to be in it. Ursa Major includes the Big Dipper (but that’s not the whole constellation by any means). Astronomers actually drew boundaries between the 88 recognized constellations quite some time ago so every bit of sky (even apparently empty places) are part of a constellation; a star doesn’t have to be on the line drawings to be considered part of the constellation.

The constellation Ursa Major (white area). You can pick out the “Big Dipper” (also called “The Wagon” in some cultures) readily.
Incidentally, a pattern like that that isn’t a complete constellation (or consists of pieces of different constellations) is called an “asterism” so the Big Dipper or Wagon is an asterism, not a constellation.
Also note in the lower right the magnitude scale; the smaller the dot the fainter the star and the higher the magnitude number.

Nor must you be a star to be “in” a constellation. Galaxies, too are in constellations, it’s just a way to indicate where they appear as seen from earth. (For instance “the” Andromeda Galaxy, M31 is in the constellation of Andromeda. And, to expand on things I said earlier, M is for the Messier Catalog which has about 110 objects in it; it’s also cataloged in the New General Catalog as NGC 224. The magnitude of M31 is 3.44 but remember it’s smeared out over a certain part of the sky so it looks very faint. I can barely see it; in fact I’m never quite sure I really am seeing it. It shows up well even in tiny binoculars, though.)

Wow, there’s an awful lot behind that paragraph from NASA, ain’t there?

No Science Post This Week

Having beaten exoplanets into the ground, I’m not sure what I want to take up next. Of course you might be protesting that you just read one, but it’s largely stuff covered earlier, and it’s in what would otherwise seem a totally random order, dictated by the phrasing of a NASA blog post.

Fuck Joe Biden

Biden, you don’t even get ONE scoop of ice cream today.

(Please post this somewhere permanent, as it will continue to be true; the SOB will never deserve a scoop.)

Incidentally, I’m writing this on Friday. This morning I saw a full-sized pickup truck in the oncoming left turn lane with a forest of flags in the bed. Once he turned and drove left-to-right in front of me, I could see two American flags near the cab, and SIX “Let’s Go Brandon” flags near the tailgate. That was unusual; usually there’s a mix of FJB (only not abbreviated) and “Trump Won” and “Trump 2024” flags when someone does this.

I haven’t seen such a display in a few weeks, by the way. Even the guy at the office complex where I work with the FJB flag on his pickup seems to have removed it (or doesn’t work there any more–trucks all look alike to me from the back, and all crossovers look like cockroaches).

Obligatory PSAs and Reminders

China is Lower than Whale Shit

Remember Hong Kong!!!

Whoever ends up in the cell next to his, tell him I said “Hi.”

中国是个混蛋 !!!
Zhōngguò shì gè hùndàn !!!
China is asshoe !!!

China is in the White House

Since Wednesday, January 20 at Noon EST, the bought-and-paid for His Fraudulency Joseph Biden has been in the White House. It’s as good as having China in the Oval Office.

Joe Biden is Asshoe

China is in the White House, because Joe Biden is in the White House, and Joe Biden is identically equal to China. China is Asshoe. Therefore, Joe Biden is Asshoe.

But of course the much more important thing to realize:

Joe Biden Didn’t Win

乔*拜登没赢 !!!
Qiáo Bài dēng méi yíng !!!
Joe Biden didn’t win !!!

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Wolf Moon

Which phone companies are losing our trust? Looks like T-Mobile is run by Jabzis.

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EXCLUSIVE: T-Mobile Disregards Supreme Court Ruling on Vaccine Mandate – Will Terminate Unvaccinated Employees

January 28, 2022, 9:30pm
by Jim Hoft


Fascist commies   :wpds_mad: 

Wolf Moon

Red Jen! From GAB!!!

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I wanna speak with the manager!!

Wolf Moon



h/t Marica

Wolf Moon


Gail Combs


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Wolf Moon

Reposting from new location…..

Gail Combs

Thanks wolfie.

BTW, I was listening to Dr Malone and realized, that although we all know about ‘regulatory capture’ That is the revolving door between industry and government, there is a secondary ‘capture’ A university is involved in clinical trials, however Professor A is Principle Investigator so Professor B FROM THE SAME UNIVERSITY (and possibly department) is on the advisory broad vetting Professor A’s work.

Dr Malone was commenting that the Pfizer trials were done in Texas…. Any bets Baylor College of Medicine was involved in the trial and that is why Hana El Sahly is Chair of the FDA Advisory board???
I just looked and what do I find???

COVID-19 Vaccine Trials for Children | BCM

We are conducting the clinical trials of COVID-19 vaccines for children 6 months to 11 years of age at Texas Children’s Hospital … Baylor College of Medicine investigators conduct hundreds of studies, ranging from small, short-term studies to large trials with thousands of patients across many institutions. NIH Definition Of A Clinical Trial.

Created: Apr 20, 2021

ABC NEWS: Brothers participate in local vaccine trial for kids …

Baylor College of Medicine is involved in two COVID-19 vaccine trials for kids. One is for Moderna, the other is for Pfizer. So far about 20 kids have enrolled in the Moderna trial….

FOX NEWS: Mix-and-match COVID-19 vaccine trials at Baylor College of Medicine

Researchers at Baylor College of Medicine are offering a study, under the guidance of doctors, to find out if a COVID-19 vaccine booster is even necessary. HOUSTON – There has been a lot of talk about mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines , and some people are even taking the matter into their own hands and secretly getting a third shot.

Houston Chronicle: Houston toddler first to receive COVID vaccine in Baylor trial

Nathan Galvan, 16-month-old, is the first toddler patient to receive a COVID-19 vaccine in the under-2 group Pfizer trial at Baylor College of Medicine and Texas Children’s Hospital.

Wolf Moon


Gail Combs

It also explains Baylor’s attacks on Dr McCollough. Dr Malone says Dr McCollough is now $150,000 in debt to lawyers trying to defend his medical licence.

Wolf Moon

Ridiculous!!! They’re EVIL.

Gail Combs

I really really want to see ALL these people ON TRIAL! I do not care if we STRIP our hospitals. Who wants to go to a hospital where there is a chance they will try to kill you if you are over 50?


I don’t believe that gil00 is 50….

Gail Combs

Oh, and notice how they are USING minority women to make them harder fro ‘old white men’ to attack…. SNARL.

Wolf Moon


Cuppa Covfefe

I think they should spin those doors up to around 2500 RPM and launch the perps in big pharma, academia, and crooked government clear into oblivion. Cooked crooks, as it were. Straight into HELL!!!!!
😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡

And millstones around their necks for all of them, for abusing children and young adults, and OUR FUTURE!!!

And maybe some Carolina Reaper hot sweet syrup and fire ants to help them feel a bit of the pain they’ve inflicted on everyone else…

Deplorable Patriot

Interstate 70…if they roll through here, I’ll go.

Wolf Moon

American Soviets looking to re-take post-Soviet Russia should have realized they hadn’t actually taken America First.

So to speak.


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Disco https://gab.com/emoji/271d.svg

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The NPC meme is great!


Vicko (@RebelDoggy) Tweeted:
Justin Trudeau in His Secret Ottawa Bunker – Live Footage Hiding From Canada Freedom Convoy 2022
#TruckersForFreedom #TrudeauResign #TruckerConvoy2022 https://t.co/KOJIgPeO10

Vicko (@RebelDoggy) Tweeted:
full video here

Last edited 6 months ago by gil00
Wolf Moon

Love it!

KlauSS SSchwab is making it into memes now – that is a real tell that people are no longer going to stand for this shit.

The new Nazis have had to activate all the Jewish groups and Israel into “Panic Defense – Nazism Was All About The Jews And Jews Alone – You Non-Jews Can’t Meme About Hitler Or Nazis!” mode.

Go to hell, brainwashed toadies and dolts, who fell for the new Nazi scam. Never Again is STRIKING NOW, because the only way to STOP it is to STRIKE EARLY. Keep taking your Pfizer/Hitler spike jabs until you all clot and die, or GET OUT OF THE NEXT HOLOCAUST NOW.

Spot the NEXT NAZIS early. It’s the only way.


The fact that the people are in the light is fantastic. And joe schmo is learning. Now the organizational structure has to be driven into the light so no tentacles escape.


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Cuppa Covfefe

Yep. It’s a new variant.

Soy Boy ChiComToy Convoy-22…..
Needs to get rid of his Castro-all and get a new filter, too…




Saskatchewan, Canada has been lost to the CA Covidians.
This is delivered with the perfect timing of an uppercut…


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Note: “not too distant future” is WAY too wishy washy, but this public announcement humiliates Twinklesocks and the Covidians.

Last edited 6 months ago by ForGodandCountry
Wolf Moon

Yup. Trudeau on the run – Nova Scotia going BONKERS by banning convoys or support for them.

This is the hill to die on. MAKE COMMUNISM DIE.

Deplorable Patriot

Why are you picking on Nova Scotia? It was originally settled by the Acadians. Okay, so I’m a descendent of that group, but the people there are really scrappy.

Gail Combs

Cajuns as in the Cajun Navy. Yeah, scrappy.

Wolf Moon

The government of Nova Scotia just said they’re going to fine people who protest by truck convoy, support them, donate to them, or gather funds.

So if they’re scrappy FOR communism, I’ve got an issue with them! 😉

Gail Combs

BOY they really do want a Truck convoy going AWAY FROM Nova Scotia — No Truck Transport for you idiots!

Deplorable Patriot

Wolf Moon

This explains why the former Trump official Scott Gottlieb who is now working for Pfizer is signaling to the left (on MSNBC) to back off on COVID restrictions.

Cuppa Covfefe

Now they need the farmers to come along and spray the building with, erm, sustainable waste products and other farm by-products… libtard Demons of Pfizer probably wouldn’t know what it was…

Deplorable Patriot

He was magnificent in goal and now communicates like a dream.

Deplorable Patriot


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And the Secratary of Transportation Peet Buttplig-plug says the FEDS are going to install traffic cams!


  • Buttigieg on Thursday revealed plans to ‘promote’ speed cameras across the US
  • The plan is part of a safety package backed by $14 billion in new funding 
  • In the UK, speed cameras have been ubiquitous for decades and are despised
  • In the US they are a matter of debate, and banned by law in at least seven states
  • US critics from both the right and the left are opposed to speed cameras 
  • Conservatives view them as overreach and liberals oppose fines funding police 
  • In the UK omnipresent speed cameras are matter of fury and controversy 
Wolf Moon

This Buttplug guy is terrible. He is not stupid. He is an EXTREME communist.

This is why they’re pushing the “zero traffic deaths”, which is stupid and will DESTROY human transportation in America. We’ll be like North Korea, while China surges ahead.


His dad is an actual commie isnt he?

Wolf Moon

Yes! World’s expert on Gramsci, one of the fathers of cultural Marxism.

Cuppa Covfefe

It’s not just for traffic, I fear. In England they actually have two-way communication on some of the camera poles, such that folks (KENS and KARENS) in the Kontrol Room(s) can see and hear what’s going on, and actually make announcements to discourage potential crimes…

Speaking of which, they also have software and databases to seach out and predict potential crimes and criminals, and “people of disruptive nature”…

Their goal is total KONTROL. Nothing less. They think themselves to be Gods…

Over here in formerly BDD (Beautiful Downtown Deutschland), we have cameras everywhere, and not just on the roads. Radar detectors are illegal, as are warning apps on phones, and infos from navis about speed traps. That doesn’t stop the word from getting out, and most printed and online maps show where the bears are…

Right now we’re in the process of getting new drivers’ licenses (by decree of the EU) which are good for only 15 years (current ones have no expiry). Supposedly this is for “harmonization” but in point of fact it’s for tracking and building their database(s)… Bastiges…

Yet they still don’t know where half the fluchtis are (refauxgees) nor how many of them there really are… some have multiple identities and are drawing multiple benefits (I guess along with their multiple wives)… and they THINK they can keep track of everything with the new licenses????? Ha….

Cuppa Covfefe

“See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” goes clear back to the Garden… indeed…




That vile wench could knaw corn through chicken wire with those donkey teeth. 🤮

Cuppa Covfefe

She doesn’t even need an N95 or FFP2 mask…

She just has to pull her oat bag up a little tighter 😆

bflyjesusgrl 🍊

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Cuppa Covfefe

“Francis” …

bflyjesusgrl 🍊

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Last edited 6 months ago by bflyjesusgrl 🍊 😎ULTRA MAGA😎

“403 forbidden”

Copy paste?


Thank you!

bflyjesusgrl 🍊

Wolfie, 2 more video clips

Valerie Curren

Thanks for the enjoyable & easy for me to understand post, Steve; not that you should be “dumbing” anything down to accommodate the likes of me! I do really enjoy the astronomy info. I wonder if there was a key to that Ursa Major image you shared for there were colored blips & symbols that were intriguing. Oh, by the way, there is some type of app that my husband’s hiking friend showed us when they stopped at my parents’ Northern Michigan cottage on the return trip from their Lake Superior hike that enhances whatever you’re pointing the device at in the night sky, so it shows planets, constellations, galaxies, star names (I think), & likely other stuff. It was pretty cool for we sky novices!

As a minor suggestion for an interlude between major science posts, especially as you keep us updated on that space telescope, which is always a treat…perhaps consider doing some combo of science, history, & social commentary on the upcoming Chi-Com Olympic games. You could present some interesting physics like of the actions of snowboarders, ice skaters, &/or downhill skiers. You could creatively, as always, rip on All things Chi-Com…

That could be timely & playful & enlightening for those of us physics lightweights!

As a complete aside, I must apologize as a whole to your “club” who I’ve been humorously “maligning” in the lead up to yesterday’s Playoff Game. I’ve been claiming without legitimate authority that “even atheists are praying that Matthew Stafford wins!” After last night’s resounding, though nail-biting, victory, it is such a privilege to proclaim that the atheists’ prayers have been answered & Stafford & the Rams are headed to the Super Bowl! Forgive my presumption & gumption, please   😎  

Detroit Lions fans & Stafford enthusiasts are rejoicing!!!

Blessings 😉

Valerie Curren

Love it. Thanks for elucidating some of your thoughts & experiences in this domain. How Anyone that knows you could imagine you have no sense of irony or offbeat atheistic humor is beyond belief! 😉 😉 😉

Valerie Curren

I’m not sure if that’s the verse but there is a place that says something like “The fool says in his heart that there is no God.” That sounds like it could be in Proverbs but I’m not sure & not apparently looking right now. 🙂

Presumption is a pretty dangerous tool for any of us to wield. When my now husband but then boyfriend came to Michigan to meet my family (w/ an engagement ring in tow–that I didn’t know about) he had a discussion w/ my dad before the blessing on our theoretical marriage. At some point Dad asked him what Valerie thought about some topic they were discussing. Michael said something like “I try not to speak for Valerie” which I highly appreciate AND try to emulate.

We had an ER run some years ago where M was dealing w/ a possible heart problem (likely bad Taco Bell) & this very friendly Muslim man engaged him/us in conversation during our very long time there. M has ADHD & often might think & pause before speaking more than I might do. Several times the visitor would ask Him a question to which I would supply an answer if M didn’t speak up quickly enough, at least to my mind.

At one point this Muslim man says in his Middle Eastern accent “Does she Always speak for you?” A phrase that has lived in infamy now in our family history. Whenever M quotes this I reply with “I don’t speak For you but I do sometimes speak Before you!”

Valerie Curren

Interesting. I’m not sure that the word atheist is in the Bible. There is a place where scripture claims that God is revealed through the heavens & the earth so that people are without excuse if they reject God, iirc. Not sure where that one is. I’ll see if I can find it…

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


I must have been mixing that up with the one that says “The heavens declare the glory of the Lord & the earth shows His handiwork.”

I went searching for “no God” in the NIV & found the one we mentioned previously…

Psalm 14:1
Psalm 14
For the director of music. Of David.
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.


Here’s that search too, fyi


I have told my husband on more than one occasion that you appear to know scripture better than do many Christians…blush emoji…What led you to dig so deeply, if you don’t mind me asking?

My husband wanted me to ask you if you’ve ever read Lee Strobel’s The Case For Christ, iirc. He said that this book grew out of an atheist’s search to prove God’s non-existence & he ended up being convinced God was/is real. I haven’t read it myself & M didn’t fully read it for he loaned his copy to someone before he finished it (he rarely finishes books any way–shocking!) & never got it back…

Valerie Curren

Apparently Psalm 14 & Psalm 53 are very similar & I didn’t know that without that “no god” search at Bible Gateway.

I was bothered by the passage “Jacob have I loved & Esau have I hated” because it struck me as offensive that God who proclaims that He “is love” could actively “hate” anyone…

Malachi 1
New International Version
1 A prophecy: The word of the Lord to Israel through Malachi.[a]

Israel Doubts God’s Love
2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord.

“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

4 Edom may say, “Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.”

But this is what the Lord Almighty says: “They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the Lord. 5 You will see it with your own eyes and say, ‘Great is the Lord—even beyond the borders of Israel!’


Romans 9
New International Version
Paul’s Anguish Over Israel
9 I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit— 2 I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race, 4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen.

God’s Sovereign Choice
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[b] 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”[c]

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”[i]

26 and,

“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”[j]

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”[k]

29 It is just as Isaiah said previously:

“Unless the Lord Almighty
had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom,
we would have been like Gomorrah.”[l]

Israel’s Unbelief
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[m]

a. Romans 9:5 Or Messiah, who is over all. God be forever praised! Or Messiah. God who is over all be forever praised!
b. Romans 9:7 Gen. 21:12
c. Romans 9:9 Gen. 18:10,14
d. Romans 9:12 Gen. 25:23
e. Romans 9:13 Mal. 1:2,3
f. Romans 9:15 Exodus 33:19
g. Romans 9:17 Exodus 9:16
h. Romans 9:20 Isaiah 29:16; 45:9
i. Romans 9:25 Hosea 2:23
j. Romans 9:26 Hosea 1:10
k. Romans 9:28 Isaiah 10:22,23 (see Septuagint)
l. Romans 9:29 Isaiah 1:9
m. Romans 9:33 Isaiah 8:14; 28:16

The way I make sense of God’s “hate” is His hatred of sin. His love being poured out through Jesus’ sacrifice is that He Himself bore the penalty for sin & paid the price that ALL Could be saved. There are still those who refuse to accept that Free Gift of Love & so remain under the curse of sin & God’s hatred (of that sin state).

If He demanded holiness of us but made no provision for that holiness to be obtained then He would be a cruel master setting before people a task it was impossible for them to complete. Since No One is capable of living a perfect, sinless life (except God Himself, in the human God-Man Jesus) He made Himself that sacrifice He required, the Perfect Blood Love sacrifice.

Scripture points to this again & again but perhaps one must have spiritual eyes & ears to see & hear this “truth”.

From my position God calls anyone who rejects this Free Gift of Love & Salvation from sin & promise of Eternal Life in Heaven with God & His People a fool. Someone who willingly turns their back on Peace & Paradise for Torment & Suffering eternally would appear “foolish” when weighing those states in the balance.

We who follow Christ suffer in many ways in this life “In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world!” but eternal joy awaits. Rejecting God here may allow someone to “enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season” but the eternal destination of damnation is too high a price to pay, imo.

What of Pascal’s Wager(iirc)?

Valerie Curren

Thanks for the reply Steve. Definitely food for thought.

If I hadn’t grown up in a Christian home it’s possible that I would be more in your camp too. There are things that my reason doesn’t really understand (if we’re being honest Any of us could say similar). If “God” had to “prove” Himself to me Before I believed that could perhaps be a tough sell. I do appreciate the last chapters of Job where God asks Job questions & puts things in a very different perspective than just the human frame of reference…

As it is I still struggle with “faith” & perhaps always will. This is an imperfect journey and one’s feet of clay continually get in the way!

If you might recall my first Q-Tree post, Luna Wolf Pack, I referenced several scriptures or biblical persons that I relate to. One of them is the man who cried “Lord I believe. Help Thou my unbelief!”


Valerie Curren

I’ll have to look that one up & dive in a bit…thanks!