2020·12·19 KMAG Daily Thread

More On The Great Conjunction

NOTE: There is some confusion about this, and it’s MY fault for not explaining it well enough. Regardless of where you are, you should be out basically as soon as it gets fairly dark, and watch until Jupiter and Saturn set. There IS an instant of absolute closest approach between Jupiter and Saturn, but it matters so little I haven’t even bothered to look it up; for all I know it’s 3 AM my time and I won’t be able to see it. The important thing is for you to see Jupiter and Saturn before they set, and that will be at about the same time, LOCAL, anywhere, less than two hours after sunset.

(The reason I harped on 5 PM my time, which is conveniently the right time for me to start looking, is that the data I got from NASA is for that exact time (midnight UTC).)

You might remember this diagram from last week. It’s a diagram of our solar system on Monday, at 5 PM Mountain Time, minus Mars, Venus, Mercury and everything past Saturn, showing an apparent lineup of Jupiter and Saturn as seen from Earth.

In 3D the lineup is pretty good too, both Jupiter and Saturn are in fact slightly ‘inside’ your monitor and they will be 1/5 of the full moon’s width apart in the sky, or one tenth of a degree of arc.

Astronomers like to denote distances “up there” as seen from Earth as angles, because that way it doesn’t matter how far away something is. It’s easiest to measure those angles–that’s what we can directly observe. Distances are harder, sometimes much harder. I gave a link last time to the story of how the distance between the earth and sun were first measured using a Venus transit in the 1700s. Since we knew the ratios of the planets’ distances from the sun, expressing everything in AUs (astronomical units, where 1AU is the mean distance from the earth to the sun), that gave us the size of each planet’s orbit by simple multiplication. We could then use the “absolute” number giving the size of Earth’s orbit to measure the distance to the nearer stars, but that was extremely finicky measuring and didn’t get done until the mid 1800s. It’s as if measuring distances is a ladder; each method gives us results we can carry forward to measure the distances to things further and further away. (Of course doing this causes measurement errors to pile up, but they’re still far better than complete guesswork.)

Astronomers still use AUs routinely for talking about the sorts of distances you’d see within a star’s planetary system–even other stars’ planetary systems–because otherwise they’d be tossing around numbers with eight or nine zeros at the end of them.

OK, so, why is Earth at the top of the diagram? Was that some arbitrary choice I made?

Well, it’s arbitrary, but it’s not my choice. And it is handy having the diagram be taller than it is wide; if it hadn’t turned out that way when I plotted it from real position data, I’d have rotated the diagram.

The data from NASA, and therefore the diagram, are expressed in something called “Heliocentric Ecliptic Coordinates.” There are X, Y and Z values for Earth, Jupiter and Saturn, and I just plotted them. (It also gives velocity components in the X, Y, and Z directions.) This is a 3-D version of the “Cartesian” coordinates that, if/when you had algebra, was what you used to graph functions. Instead of squares on graph paper, imagine cubes.

The center of this big three-dimensional grid is the center of gravity of the Solar System (practically dead center in the Sun). But which way do the axes point? A choice had to be made. It didn’t cosmically matter which way we pointed the axes, but astronomers had to come up with a common convention. What’s fairly obvious and convenient is that the X-Y plane (where Z is zero) should be the plane of Earth’s orbit about the Sun, and the Z axis should probably run through the center of the sun with the positive end going out the Sun’s north pole (or close to it, just so it’s at a right angle to the XY plane). Those decisions come from the physical characteristics of Earth’s orbit around the sun. But we still haven’t defined which way the X and Y axes point, even if we know what plane they are in.

So here comes the arbitrary decision, made sometime centuries ago: The X axis runs in the direction in which, we on Earth, see the sun to be at the exact moment of the March equinox (which is “spring” for most people). So we are sighting through the sun to establish the X axis.

Which means that at that moment, Earth is at roughly X=-1.0 AU, the Sun of course is at X=0.0 AU, and it is Earth’s position at the beginning of (northern hemisphere) fall that is at X=+1.0 AU.

If you look at my diagram, at 3 o’clock on the diagram, on the circle of earth’s orbit, is where Earth is on the first day of autumn–straight to the right of the “origin” which is where x=1.0 ought to be on any self-respecting graph. At 12 o’clock is the winter solstice (+Y axis), at 9 o’clock is the spring equinox (-X), and at 6 o’clock is the summer solstice (-Y). You’ll notice I went around the “clock” counter-clockwise. That’s because almost everything in our solar system runs counter-clockwise. The planets rotate counter-clockwise, all of the major moons and planets orbit counter-clockwise, and so on, of course this is all as seen from over the north pole of the Sun, our viewpoint being somewhere along the +Z axis.

Here’s the same diagram with the X and Y axes superimposed.

[By the way, how did we decide which direction would be “clockwise”? We did pick a direction, we could have picked the other direction for clocks to run in. Why didn’t we? Well this time there is a reason. In Europe, the shadow on a sundial moves in that direction. If our civilization had started in the southern hemisphere, long odds are that we’d draw our maps with south at the top, our globes would be mounted with south at the top, and our clocks would run counter-clockwise. And the people in the northern hemisphere would have to endure all those jokes about being upside down.]

Returning to our coordinate system, the Y axis goes through the spot where the earth is at (northern hemisphere) winter solstice. Which is pretty much where we will be this Monday. That’s why Earth is straight “up” from the Sun in my diagram.

Which way is Z? It’s straight up out of your screen, right at you. So when I said Jupiter and Saturn were slightly inside your screen, it’s because they have very small negative Z values.

One way to draw directions into an out of the monitor, or a blackboard, which is how I learned it many, many years ago, is to use ⨯ for into the monitor and ⋅ or even ⊙ for out of it. This is meant to suggest an arrow with four tail feathers and a conical head, the dot is the point of the arrow (facing you, out from the monitor or chalkboard)–circled just shows you the entire arrowhead looking at you straight on. The ⨯ suggests the four tail feathers when the arrow is pointing into the monitor (or chalkboard).

One more thing about coordinate systems (if you haven’t gotten bored yet), the issue of “right handed” versus “left handed.” If you use your right hand to point, like a kid making a gun with his fingers, along the X axis, and your other fingers bend towards the Y axis, and your thumb points along the Z axis, it’s a right handed system. If you can’t get this to work with some coordinate system, try your left hand. If that works, you are using a left handed system.

These ecliptic coordinates I got from NASA are right-handed.

And it’s cool that this diagram just happened to lay out well without having to be rotated. Those of you who remember your algebra and “graphing things” should find a lot of this familiar.

OK that’s enough of that rather abstract stuff. Now I’m going to try to explain why all of “great conjunctioning” is happening in the southwestern sky after sunset.

First, imagine yourself somewhere on the line between sun and Earth, and you are facing towards the earth, with the Sun shining on your back.

Or, imagine my first diagram tilting away from you as shown, and you being transported to the big white X in the upper left. Then continue tilting until you are edge-on.

What do you see? Well, because it’s the winter Solstice, this is what you see.

Globe simulating Earth seen from the sun at December Solstice

Well, OK you won’t see all the labels and so forth, and especially not the big metal thing on the south pole, but the thing to notice is that the south pole is visible and the north pole is not. The earth’s axis is tilted with respect to the ecliptic (the plane we’re standing on in our little mind-experiment). It stays pointing in the same direction (almost–it moves slowly, so slowly you’ll never notice). So as it moves around its orbit, from right to left in this diagram, there are times when the north pole points away from the sun (and us) and times when it points towards the sun. This coming Monday just happens to be the day when the north pole is pointed as much away from the sun as it ever is (that’s the definition of the December solstice).

In the upper right, not very visible, is North America. The earth rotates west to east, so North America is about to go onto the far side, the dark side–it’s late in the day there. Here are some annotations and a set of axes in the lower left. Notice Z is now up, because +Y points into the picture.

Now here’s a side view. Going back to the original diagram, it’s as if we tilted it this way, instead.

But if we’re going to imagine ourselves standing on the diagram, we need to make it horizontal, like this:

So, finally, here’s a “side” view of Earth from the right.

“Side” view.

From this vantage point, the earth is moving directly away from us in its orbit. On the first diagram, we’re somewhere to the right of earth, looking toward it.

Any horizontal line on this last picture, points at the sun. And if you can imagine some Deplorable in flyover country standing in Kansas, looking at the setting sun…well, it’s not to the west. It’s south of west. Because west is actually to the left and up in the diagram, not straight to the left, as shown below. And north is kind of tilted askew because the ground that deplorable is standing on is actually tilted away from us (imagine standing where the compass rose is).

This is why the Sun is setting to the south of west at this time of year (someone asked me about that a few days ago, I hope she’s reading this).

But what about Jupiter and Saturn? Well, let’s back up a bit. Here’s the diagram “tilting” again. Notice the diagonal dashed line (I don’t know why but my graphics software turned it into a dashed line); that’s the line to Jupiter and Saturn.

So, imagine it tilting all the way…and that diagonal line becomes a line running left from Earth to Jupiter and Saturn, but it also slopes up and out of the screen!

The horizon plane for our sunset-viewing Deplorable was tilted, some, away from us, but the sun is on that plane because it’s sunset. Jupiter and Saturn are above that plane, also in the southwest, at sunset.

Which, for our Deplorable in Kansas who’s watching the sunset, means they’re still up above the horizon.

If I have been doing my job as a writer, you’ve been following me and understand this, and you can see how in three dimensions it all hangs together now. I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if many here are still confused. It’s tough to do this sort of thing even with diagrams.

But at least now you should know where to look on Monday evening!

And just to put the icing on the cake, here’s a photo I took just as it was getting dark on Wednesday, facing in the general direction of sunset. The two visible “dots” in the sky are Jupiter (brighter one) and Saturn (dimmer one, above and left of Jupiter). Even after it’s dark they will be noticeably brighter than any star, particularly in that part of the sky.

Justice Must Be done.

Our movement is about replacing a failed and corrupt political establishment with a new government controlled by you, the American People...Our campaign represents a true existential threat, like they’ve never seen before.

Then-Candidate Donald J. Trump

Lawyer Appeasement Section

OK now for the fine print.

This is the WQTH Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Poltical correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines,  here, with an addendum on 20191110.

We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.

And remember Wheatie’s Rules:

1. No food fights
2. No running with scissors.
3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone.
4. Zeroth rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government get your guns.
5. Rule one of gun safety: The gun is always loaded.
5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty.
6. Rule two of gun safety: Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy.
7. Rule three: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
8. Rule the fourth: Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

(Hmm a few extras seem to have crept in.)

The Mandatory Coin

Hopefully I’ll think of something before 10 PM my time on Friday. If not, you’ll find yourself reading this.

Standard Disclaimer: These are not my notes. In this particular case, though, I will admit to owning examples of all three of the notes that were issued.

Obligatory PSAs and Reminders

Just two more things, my standard Public Service Announcements. We don’t want to forget them!!!

How Not To Find Yourself In Contention For The Darwin Award
(Nothing to do with bearded dragons)

It has been pointed out that all of the rioting is nominally on account of criminals who resisted arrest in one form or another, and someone suggested schools ought to teach people not to resist arrest.

Granted an “ass kicking” isn’t the same as being shot, but both can result from the same stupid act. You may ultimately beat the rap, but you aren’t going to avoid the ride.

China is Lower than Whale Shit

To conclude: My standard Public Service Announcement. We don’t want to forget this!!!

Remember Hong Kong!!!

中国是个混蛋 !!!
Zhōngguò shì gè hùndàn !!!
China is asshoe !!!

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para59r

This is where we are at. Don’t ignore.
Ron
@CodeMonkeyZ
·
12h

Serbian Warning: What Happened When Their Elections Were Stolen in 2000

https://twitter.com/CodeMonkeyZ/status/1340271711384555522?s=20

Last edited 10 months ago by para59r
singingsoul1

We cannot let them steal our elections our votes.
Interesting the military behaves as if they are distend from it. They fight for free elections and freedom in other countries but not in ours? They will even die for it.
The government institutions turned on us and that is reality even SCOTUS.
Eastern Europe knows what happens.

Gail Combs

Remember that OH!Bummer promoted boot lickers and purged patriots. What you are hearing from are the treasonous bootlickers. It is all PSY-OPS by the Fake News and Deep State.

Remember the welcome POTUS got during the Army-Navy game.

And for what it is worth. Some officers in Vietnam were shot in the back by their own troops. My Ex had a friend who was a mortician in ‘Nam so that is who gave us the info. Also one of his training officers in OCS had been shot twice by his own troops. Once each during two different tours in ‘Nam.

singingsoul1

The enemy within.

para59r

Anecdotal observance to that. I came into the 82nd a few years after Nam and some of the NCO’s were still schooling select troops to take out the platoon leader. At this time we were using the Multiple Integrated Laser System (MILES) to engage each other in field exercises. Lieutenants often never made it across objectives because they were sniped and later it was common for them to take their battery out of their Miles harness.

Additional thought I’m willing to bet NCO’s right now have their officers on edge in most combat units. They are often more outspoken and have the real control of the lower enlisted. Any talk of supporting an uprising against a new administration likely has them worried.

bakocarl

So, here in Pahrump at 2700 ft, clear as a bell, and there’s a big ol’ bright Jupiter with the little dot of Saturn almost directly above it. Great vis.

kalbokalbs

Dayton 4,400 ft. Clouds have rolled in obscuring view lower elevations. Moon fuzzy, but bright.

Setting cell phone alarm to remind me to do a look see tomorrow and Monday. Hourly weather forecast looks promising.

Gingersmom2009

I’m a little out of the loop. Is the time an hour after sunset in the low southwest?

kalbokalbs

Steve reports 5PM Mountain Time. Southwest is my understanding. .

In the article above, Steve in CO posted a pic showing Jupiter and relative angle above horizon.

If I mucked this up, someone please correct me.

Gingersmom2009

That’s 7 for me – nasa.gov is where I saw the “hour after sunset” info. But 5PM mountain would be right for him.

Gingersmom2009

So 5 PM IS the time!

Gail Combs

Go out and enjoy the sunset and then you will not miss it.

cthulhu

What I found best was when the sun had just set but the moon was due south and very high in the sky. Jupiter/Saturn is about half as high in the sky and pretty much southwest.

grandmaintexas

It will be exactly a half moon on the 21st, I think.

Teagan

That answers my question of why our local planetarium is only using the telescope from 5:30-7:30, starting tomorrow night! Aha moment!

para59r

Okay, and did get a look. The two were aligned one above the other. Crossing soon!

Linda

bakocarl

Gosh, they shouldn’t be worried at all. With Pedo Joe as “the Big Guy”, he can just have his AG fire the Special Counsel . . . no probs!

Wolf Moon

We approach the moment of testing.

Some FAIL already.
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Gail Combs

NOTE PURPLE TIE….

NBC NEWS….

Nov. 12, 2020, 2:01 PM EST / Updated Nov. 12, 2020, 6:38 PM EST

By Corky Siemaszko

Faced with skyrocketing numbers of new Covid-19 cases in his state, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine has risked antagonizing his own Republican Party by reimposing a statewide mask mandate and bolstering it with some additional tougher guidelines…..

Wolf Moon

This was political. I will explain tonight. CHINA MIKE is using COVID to suppress ORGANIZED opposition.

singingsoul1

The recall?

Wolf Moon

Well, that, too, but not directly. It’s mostly the Stop The Steal movement to support Trump that he’s targeting. The media is helping him on impeachment – that commie Mollie Jong-Fast was tweeting in his defense – all you need to know there. Have not paid attention to the recall effort – don’t know how that will work.

singingsoul1

The recall will not work if to many owe him .
My husband never thought the guy was dumb and thought he was cunning. Comes across as harmless like McConnell.

Wolf Moon

Yup. He plays innocent well.

I had assumed that the HCQ ban was NOT his doing, and actually an attack on him, but now I have my doubts. We will see what happens with the Stop The Steal rallies.

I tell you this – I believe the BLM commies are working to help the murderous “event” people create a GUNPLAY incident – likely in cahoots with Treasonous FIB. I will explain why I believe this later.

singingsoul1

I think so too. BLM Antifa are the enforcers what the left wants to achieve.

evereleutheros

God help me if I ever see this MFer out in public.

kinthenorthwest

Still trying to find the number of people who got the flu or died from the flu this year, oh wait CDC has combined Flu, Pneumonia and COVID all into one category.

kalbokalbs

Except, Pedo Joe will NEVER be President.

kinthenorthwest

You mean Biden won’t be able to make his wife Surgeon General like Whoopi Goldberg wants! No wonder so many Americans are so screwed up!!

come to timmy

Ladies and gentlemen,
this is now officially ridiculous.

kinthenorthwest

It was ridiculous when Whoopi said it..Still can NOT believe that she is that ignorant,

Last edited 10 months ago by kinthenorthwest
come to timmy

Bet they keep close tabs on anyone with a mouthpiece or microphone or access to keyboard & blog to make sure they’ve got their stories straight or someone doesn’t let slip anything that veers from what must be a hastily constructed script. Bad time to ad-lib or improvise. But that would make sense, because ad-libbing requires vivid awareness of freedom. Because, you know, the slightest mistake may be costly. From apparently several sides, no less.

kinthenorthwest

When I saw that I was like you mean Whoppi is that stupid….Yes I said it and usually don’t name call people.

come to timmy

Whoopi must’ve not gotten the update memo.
Heck, even 70-80some million deplorable Amercians know this Mrs. Biden isn’t a real doctor. Sheesh!

kinthenorthwest

Hey I will admit I did not know about the PHD, but knew her degree was in education. H3LL her having a PHD and married to Biden, really makes one wonder what cracker jack box she found her diploma.

come to timmy

I will also admit I learned of this very recently. I normally don’t keep up with political/world news. Now thanks to the election corruption it’s pretty impossible to keep up with anything else.

kinthenorthwest

It is so out there—Hey I knew she was NO medical doctor at least.

come to timmy

Once upon a time it was possible to watch movies or Johnny Carson or late night music shows without being lectured about the climate or identity politics or the evils of capitalism and America being such a cruel terrible place.

kinthenorthwest

Looking back at some of the shows of the 50s and 60s, especially late night is like oh my. If they ran today I can’t help but wonder what would have happened to some of our greatest. stars.

Wolf Moon

OMG, what a clownshow.

kinthenorthwest

I think it should be re-tweeted on Whopi’s site daily

Debra Niese

That makes my brain hurt, its so stupid… i

Wolf Moon

Me too!!!

para59r

Yes but they should relax. Normally a special council will have been agreed to by both Democrats and Republicans, one that is supposedly impartial as they search for the facts. However in current climate there will be no one person found to be that way nor need one be looked for as the facts which charges would stem from have largely been found. Thus she may feel free to act as the prosecutor and they will have an opportunity even in military tribunal to have a defense lawyer. Sucks though that they will have to see evidence presented against them (finally, fingers crossed).

cthulhu

Got a good peep at Jupiter + Saturn.

singularzoe

well, decided to risk experimenting logging out of WordPress to see if I could reply to comments, but it didn’t make nay difference. Feel it may relate to my Not using a mouse.

singingsoul1

Zoe glad you are here  😀 

phoenixrising

Zoe,
I hope this is resolved for you very soon…

kinthenorthwest

WIth my game computer, I am not logged in and i lose my title LOL
I’m not a wolverine LOL

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Last edited 10 months ago by kinthenorthwest
Valerie Curren

Awesome American Spirit!!!

kinthenorthwest

American Patriots have only just begun to fight–

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Valerie Curren

Awesome Kin, Thanks for sharing these!

kinthenorthwest

You welcome==My homemade WWII video has a slew of the WWII posters in it. It was actually my very first video,

Last edited 10 months ago by kinthenorthwest
Valerie Curren

Is that the one w/ an uncle & mother in the beginning? If so that was very moving.

kinthenorthwest

Yes…I am so proud of my family

Valerie Curren

Yes what a rich heritage of faith & fervor. Thanks for sharing them with us 🙂

kinthenorthwest

sadly I can’t say that about most of the ones that follow me, like my own children..

Valerie Curren

I’m sorry to hear that. Our four kids seem to have their heads on straight & their hearts in the right place. We gave them a pretty strong Christian family with a blending of Truth & Fun. Somehow that worked out.

But we also had a pretty brutal crucible of Special Needs issues & they learned & practiced Forgiveness A Lot growing up…

Some of my brothers’ kids have rather faltered in their walks of faith which saddens me. Some of them were homeschooled in a pretty sheltered Christian environment.

But then the Bible does say “train up a child in the way he should go & when he is OLD he will not depart from it” There was no guarantee of not wandering from the narrow way in youth…

Well God bless you & let you see your offspring & others who follow you grow in grace & wisdom & return or come to the Lord before you go someday to your own reward!

kinthenorthwest

I did a couple of return to senders….One of them decided to do a rant again…So NO I don’t want crap from her.

Valerie Curren

I truly cannot imagine. Hang in there!!!

kinthenorthwest

Very good friend of mine in Calif husband had to be admitted. We have been waiting for it sort of.
Called a daughter to see about Calif florist…Said “If not for COVID I would be on first plane to help her.” got a 30 min rant on politics and COVID. Finally hung up.
My friends husband died..No funeral until ??? Just have a memorial some day.

Valerie Curren

So tragic & dehumanizing. So sorry 🙁

kinthenorthwest

That was final straw…for she did it when Trump won and a few times in between.
When we swear in Trump in 2021, I do not want her rant againl

Valerie Curren

Sounds like someone who only consumes “mainstream” news so doesn’t Really know what’s going on, especially with POTUS. Perhaps later you can gently help open her eyes, after some de-programming 🙂

kinthenorthwest

Never thought i raised such……..children!!

Valerie Curren

Yes, lefties Are children, as in immature adults. Does it go with not accepting responsibility for their lives (said generically not for your family per se)? People are such funny creatures.

kinthenorthwest

They are in their late 40s==oh well….

Valerie Curren

Interesting. I’m less than a decade older than that. I was thinking that they might have grown up in the 70’s. Now if they went to college they probably got the earlier version of leftie indoctrination to set them on a darker path, so sorry.

kinthenorthwest

One is/was very anti abortion….oh I asked in the beginning if she still was. Teach me.

Valerie Curren

I’ve been Pro-Life forever, but wonder if I was sucked into the abortion BS as a teen, I don’t remember. I was pretty into woman’s Lib stuff for a while & can imagine my young self being convinced of the unfairness of pregnancy for a short season.

My parents used to get me Ranger Rick magazines & I petitioned to “save the baby harp seals” who were being clubbed to death way Up North. Another time I raised money for UNICEF, but all that stuff was no later than junior high. Funny the twisting paths of life’s journey!

kinthenorthwest

Oh yes==My sister got me into Civil Rights sit downs during the 60s when I was 15/16, The second time I came home asking what a few foul words I’d been called by the police meant, my mother forbade my sister from taking me to any more.
Haight Asbury and protests, in the mid 60s until I got married in 68. Found out at one of the protests I’d been nicknamed big mama. Remember at 5’3″ and 100 lbs I was like ??? when I found out. Well I was the girl with the gall to tell off anyone that dare disrespect our people in uniform. So when there was a protest I joined, seems they would start whispering “there’s Big Mama, be on best behavior” Oh besides being small, I barely looked like I was 13 or 14. LOL
Yes those were the crazy days.
As with you, I felt differently about abortion. I’d think about girls/women who were abused or raped. It was in the late 80/90s that I flipped, especially after finding out that rapes, and incest were way less than 4% of the millions plus yearly murders by abortion in America. On top of that I saw a movie on a developing baby in the womb, and later an abortion on film. . Did you know that NY and Calif often report their numbers. Up until about 5 or so years ago, i used to volunteer at homeless shelters, abuse shelters & help monitor women’s discussion groups. Women who had abortions who were now in their 60s and 70s would still have major depression for weeks or longer right, usually about the their child would be having a birthday
OK sorry I should not have rambled…but I have had an interesting life that I would never exchange.

Valerie Curren

“OK sorry I should not have rambled” disagree here. I love what you are sharing, what a beautiful path to shape you into the extraordinary person you are now!!!

I truly have to enjoy this interchange in the moment because the way my memory is getting I might forget what you’ve said or that those tales apply to you. Please forgive, in advance, those shortcomings…

I attended a pro-life event in Tulsa in the 80’s & saw how it was completely misrepresented by the news reporting of that rally to which I was eye-witness & participant in. That was in the heart of the Bible Belt where “Christianity” was the cultural norm. It’s made me highly suspicious of “news” reporting ever since, just that one taste of the lies & distortion from decades ago.

Oh, when my twins were born I witnessed what I believe to be a “post-birth abortion” & that was in ’95. I was in the NICU in the middle of the night to nurse Brandon & hold Josiah while he was gavage fed. At one point a nurse brought in a baby girl & laid her naked upon a tray under a warming light. I observed this baby, left alone there with no staff attending to her & no leads or diaper or anything & she started turning purple & gasping for breath. I called to the staff to do something & was told they “were doing all that they could do for her” & they were doing nothing except the warming light (this baby appeared to have a hole between nose & mouth which I presumed was a cleft palate, which is immanently survivable & correctable w/ surgery).

Anyway I watched this baby gasp her last breath & a staff person eventually come over & confirm death w/ a stethoscope. Then she was enclosed in a receiving blanket, like a shroud, & presumably taken to the morgue.

How I’ve despaired that I didn’t have the gumption & at least hold & rock & sing over that precious little girl as she passed from this life to the next. I believe I was praying for her but don’t remember that part. If I hadn’t been in that room ostensibly nursing–Brandon had fallen asleep by then but being still latched on appeared to be eating–I was able to remain a mostly silent witness to that horror unfolding.

My daughter was inspired to write a song about this experience & every time I hear it it makes me cry. I’ll try to share those lyrics later, when she gets up…

kinthenorthwest

There are so many types of birth control beside abstinence that they is no reason that so many women are using it as birth control
On top of that sex is not essential to one being able to live to a ripe old age. One can survive quite well without sex, just look at the large % of nuns who die virgins in their late 80s or in their 90s or even older

Valerie Curren

Well with all the pandemic paranoia perhaps abstinence will be making a comeback!

kinthenorthwest

Right now NY and Calif often don’t report.
But there have 837,010 Murders by abortion since 1/1/2020!…….

Valerie Curren

Horrifying. Is that an uptick? Lots of people are probably terrified to bring any new life into this insane world!

kinthenorthwest

It is usually over 1 million but since Calif and NY don’ often report it is probably at least a 100,000 to 200,000 more.
Sick as it sounds there are clubs of women who get pregnant just to get an abortion.

Valerie Curren

That last sounds demonic. There are always new “lows” w/ lefties. God Help Us–literally!

kinthenorthwest

I have what I call my twitter post and the number is always up dated. In 2008 I stopped posting the numbers the first week of December, even though it was a hot and heavy topic with many in the threads I was on.
Got this message, why no numbers Grannie? Told I just couldn’t to it, it had hit 1 million and going up quite a bit day. Don’t ask me why but I was OK until that day it hit 1 million ..after a few of of us prayed, we realized that was my calling in that area, for it did wake up people who did not realize how many.
Here is my usual post but I update the numbers.
29 States & DC Allow Murder by Abortion of Viable Full-Term Babies
•One baby murdered by abortions every 26 seconds
•137 babies murdered by abortions every hour
837,129 Babies were murdered by abortions since 1/1/2020 in US
Less than 4% of Abortions are due to Rape and/or Incest
OVER 2/3s of Women who have Abortions have long term mental health issues.
MURDER BY ABORTION IS THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN THE US AND THE WORLD

Valerie Curren

Thank you Kin/Lynda. These heartbreaking truths Must be told!

kinthenorthwest

I do eliminate what ever lines are needed so it fits, and what ever picture I have in my stash. The one on @nicovega was because of what she was trying to indicate about Trump when it is her party that have been spreading hate and murder, especially in this last year.

Valerie Curren

I admire your ability to compile so much original material. Mostly I pass on things of interest that others have created. Just lately I’ve added some images or videos but never made a meme. We’ve all parts to play.

kinthenorthwest

Started collecting in 2008–one thing i got out being an idiot democrat–or as I say What I have to thank Hillary for, research and keep.
In 2008 you wouldn’t believe all the sites that were getting white washed so the real Obama would not be discovered. Usually right after found. Do believe they had trolls on all sites.

Valerie Curren

Fascinating. I wonder what the source of that whitewashing was. aka BHO seemed more affiliated w/ Muslims & commies than Chi-coms…

kinthenorthwest

Black Panthers did some white washing, cause Obama was all over their site!
Wright’s church changed their creed.
There were others top. Forums like this one got jacked up all kinds of ways. Heck it cost me $100 to get rid of a virus from NOquarter. which was one of the best sights back then.

Valerie Curren

Weren’t the Black Panthers the ones who did that election intimidation in Philly that Holder refused to prosecute because they were black?

Wright & his “church” should have been an albatross around aka BHO’s neck!

Valerie Curren

Here’s a link to where I posted my daughter’s song about that NICU “post birth abortion”, fyi

https://www.theqtree.com/2020/12/20/dear-kmag-20201220-open-topic/comment-page-2/#comment-632565

Valerie Curren
mollypitcher5

I sure hope so.

MAGA Mom

kinthenorthwest

Seems too many political leaders, politicians and American citizens have forgotten that the President, Courts and Congress work for Americans.

We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
Abraham Lincoln

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kinthenorthwest

Well they didn’t take it down but they FB finally put a disclaimer on the “Person of the Year Post” It has only bee shared by 255 People! There is NOT one lie on the post!! Only took them 4.5 days to put a disclaimer on it.

You can see the disclaimer and post if you have FB probably
For those that don;t FB said Y”our Post Is Missing Context
Your post contains the same information as a post checked by independent fact-checkers. It may have small differences.
Independent fact-checkers at USA TODAY say information in your post is missing context and could mislead people. We’ve added a notice to your post.
comment image%3Fwidth%3D2359%26height%3D1333%26fit%3Dcrop%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp&cfs=1&sx=667&sy=0&sw=1333&sh=1333&_nc_cb=1&_nc_hash=AQEfZ124L5yWlD2e
USA TODAYFact-Check
Fact check: Trump was Time magazine’s Person of the Year in 2016; Biden and Harris honored in 2020
Donald Trump’s presidency is coming to an end, but some say he still has honors to receive. One post uses a Time cover from 2016 to make that point.
All fact-checkers who partner with Facebook must be signatories of the International Fact-Checking Network and follow their Code of Principles.
Learn more about how Facebook works with independent fact-checkers to stop the spread of false information”

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Last edited 10 months ago by kinthenorthwest
Valerie Curren
Valerie Curren
Valerie Curren
kinthenorthwest

You mean like ABC taking Daigle off the New Year’s Eve program, because she is a Christian who voted Trump,
Lauren Daigle Says She’s ‘Saddened’ by New Year’s Eve Performance Controversy but Would Be ‘Honored’ to Perform if Allowedhttps://newsla.localad.com/2020/12/19/lauren-daigle-says-shes-saddened-by-new-years-eve-performance-controversy-but-would-be-honored-to-perform-if-allowed/

Will have to say that this song is such a great Christian fighting song

O’ Lord by Lauren Daigle
I will stand my ground
Where hope can be found
Oh! O’ Lord, o’ Lord, I know You hear my cry
Your love is lifting me above all the lies
No matter what I face this I know in time
You’ll take all that is wrong and make it right

Valerie Curren

Wasn’t one of her songs on that powerful rescuing the kids from the pedo monsters video?

kinthenorthwest

Are you talking about this one….. Look up Child

Lauren Daigle ~ Look Up Child
You’re not threatened by the war
You’re not shaken by the storm
I know You’re in control
Even in our suffering
Even when it can’t be seen
I know You’re in control

Oh I, I-I-I, I hear You say
I hear You say
Look up child, hey
Look up child, hey

Valerie Curren

I’m not sure, usually too busy being overwhelmed by the images of soldiers rescuing those brutalized babies…

Valerie Curren

Prayer for missing 20 year old needed…no update I could find…

https://twitter.com/SchwartzyXRP/status/1340253813408722944

kinthenorthwest

Remember the Greatest gift we can give President Donald Trump, Vice President Pence their families, administration and America are our unending prayers.
God Forever Bless President Donald Trump, Vice President Pence, their administration, their families, America and all Patriotic Americans.

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Valerie Curren

That is the perfect prayer for these times!

kinthenorthwest

It is my pinned twitter ..think about changing…but nope
Thank you –stole some of the words form one of our writers.

Valerie Curren

Great choice!

Linda
Valerie Curren

Dr. Z’s best medicine!

Interesting take on the 10 Commandments, it removes #3 “thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images” & stretches #10 “thou shalt not covet” into 2 commandments by splitting some from the list that we shouldn’t covet.

https://twitter.com/zev_dr/status/1340501838362230786

kinthenorthwest

Today’s sermon was on the Ten Commandments…Yes today! I was at the church I do prison ministry for which is 7th day Adventist.

Valerie Curren

Thank you for that service to society & the body of Christ. Years back my dad used to do prison ministry in Jackson Prison in MI. Later he did some ministry work with Detroit Rescue Mission, preaching to some street people before they’d get a meal. My husband used to speak pretty regularly at our old church’s Shelter Ministry (for women & kids from a local homeless shelter), I’d help in the prayer ministry side at times too.

kinthenorthwest

There are many reason I do not want to know their crimes, but that is between Christ and them.
Studies have show that knowing that there are people who do care, makes a HUGE difference in the making a better life and becoming a good citizen when they release.

Valerie Curren

My dad’s college friend used to use his dental skills to treat inmates in an Upper Peninsula prison & he said he never wanted to know the crimes of his patients either. He didn’t want to think of them as murderers or rapists just as the person he saw in front of him.

kinthenorthwest

You have a great family—God Bless them.

Valerie Curren

Thanks Kin. There is a good foundation of faith but plenty of feet of clay & wounds of the soul to still wrestle with over the decades…God Bless YOU & Yours too!

kinthenorthwest

Hey I am far from perfect but I trylll

Valerie Curren

Sometimes I barely try at all 😉 Oh not because I’m so perfect, but sometimes I’m so indifferent, sadly…

kinthenorthwest

Just posted this on twitter

Valerie Curren

Thanks for sharing. I didn’t know that song & haven’t seen the Gaither Vocal Band in many years (though being married to a Christian rocker we usually listen to different genres of music). With more than 17 million views of that video it’s obviously ministering to many people.

kinthenorthwest

I listen to all kinds…I’m a lyric person and love the lyrics of songs and their message.

Valerie Curren

Some of the best is like powerful poetry.

I love scripture set to music as a form of worship, but apparently that makes me quite out of step with “modern” church music 🙂

kinthenorthwest

Me Too!!!

Valerie Curren

Yes I understand that but it’s concerning to leave one commandment entirely out. I believe the Jews start w/ what (most?) Christians consider a preamble “Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord”…that’s from memory so may be inaccurate.

For an “atheist” I am amazed at the depth & breadth of your knowledge of faith topics! Have you ever read CS Lewis’ Surprised By Joy, his chronicle from atheism to Christianity in a gentle ah ha moment?

Valerie Curren

I like to overuse punctuation & some part of me has hope that some day you will truly see The Light 🙂 Also with your vast insights & intellect it seems unlikely that you wholeheartedly believe that everything is absolute random chance & meaningless. Also you appear to have a strong moral center which makes no sense without having a Standard by which to measure thoughts & behaviors against. From my perspective you’re already more than half way there.

Valerie Curren

I guess I probably think that few people are truly Atheist, but more likely Agnostic (not saying this applies to you). Or perhaps even believe in God but are so angry with Him for the unexplainable (at least not easily explainable) horrors in this world, the evil. How can a Good God allow Evil to exist? If He is all powerful how did He not stop the Holocaust? Things like that.

It’s very said that people of faith would reject a loved one for a difference of opinion on these matters. One of my oldest son’s close friends is a claimed atheist. He stood up in my son’s wedding & has said that knowing & being friends with my son has drawn him closer to believing in God than anything else in his life.

My kids are more distressed by peers of faith who are pretty much brain-washed libs. They find it hard to tolerate people who grew up with some degree of a biblical world view but are lacking in common sense & swallow leftist bilge without even blinking.

I think all of my kids would welcome friendship with an atheist. But each, in their own way, may seek to nudge these friends closer to considering God as a reality & a refuge.

Christians have probably turned many people off from the Lord, especially the self-righteous, hypocritical ones. We are all sinners saved by grace, having done Nothing to deserve it except to accept the free gift.

So no offence was meant, I hope none was felt 🙂

Where do you think morality comes from?

Valerie Curren

Hey no problem on that answer. We’ll get around to it another time, God Willing 😉

I never did get around to that detailed conversation you were having w/ MichaelH, I believe, at the old Q Tree a while back. I had opened the relevant points in different tabs but before getting to them I had a shut down that “erased” everything I had open…

So many things to read, so little time, & even less brain power to make sense of it all! Thanks for sharing what you have, I really value your opinion & your insights! God Bless YOU, & I sincerely mean that 🙂

Valerie Curren

Thanks for that tip! & correction. Your memory (& mind) are light years ahead of me 🙂

Valerie Curren

Uh oh. I might need a map to get involved in that conversation now!

It’s possible that he forgot or was distracted. You guys are so famous for compartmentalized thinking w/ that “brain damage” (burned out corpus callosum joining the left & right hemispheres of the brain), or so I’ve heard.

Scott doesn’t strike me as someone afraid to dodge the tough Q’s 🙂 I think that’s not stated accurately. Scott’s not afraid of the tough Q’s, or so it seems to me!

Valerie Curren

Now I’ve literally bookmarked it so “when the Spirit moves” that might be a fun convo to jump into, late (as almost always). Thanks Steve!

cthulhu

When I was much younger, I held myself out to be an atheist, in the classic form of “a-” (lack of) (as in anhydrous) and “theist” (believer in theos — any god).

As I grew older and less concerned about being intellectual and rebellious, I came around to the realization that such a statement implied a level of knowledge I did not have, and was thus a statement of faith in itself.

So went back to the Greek and figured I should be an “a-” (same as above) “gnostic” (knowledge). Confessing that I did not know removed faith from the equation.

Deplorable Patriot

In essentials, though, the Ten Commandments are the same. They are numbered differently in some cases.

But still, without the 5-10, civilization is not easy to achieve.

TheseTruths

With all due respect, I would never in a million years do my own “take” on a portion of Scripture, that involves removing part of it and adding something else while still presenting it as the original passage. I doubt that is okay for Hasidic Jews, either.

The first commandment is “I am the Lord your God.” I can’t imagine changing what the Lord has said. It is akin to misquoting someone, only on the biggest possible scale, to misquote the God of the universe.

I wish Dr. Shiva well, just disagree about doing this.

Valerie Curren

I don’t think the Commandments are numbered in scripture so there is some leeway perhaps. Here’s the NIV version from Bible Gateway

Exodus 20: 1-17
New International Version
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

“The Ten Commandments” is a heading & not part of scripture, just a navigation tool.

TheseTruths

My quibble is the idea of his having his own “take” on that portion of Scripture. it’s not about numbering the commandments; he removed one of the commandments, which is pretty horrifying to me:

Interesting take on the 10 Commandments, it removes #3 “thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images” & stretches #10 “thou shalt not covet” into 2 commandments by splitting some from the list that we shouldn’t covet.

Valerie Curren

It is possible that he just passed on a 10 Commandments meme someone else made that he didn’t read completely…but Someone did that deed, sadly…

Valerie Curren
mollypitcher5

All the better to engineer bio weapons with

para59r

Yep.. read that.. was going to bring it forward but lost the link. So much happening.

Marica

Fabulous Post Steve!!!!!
I.m going to DC on 1/6… Anyone wanna join me?

Linda
Valerie Curren
grandmaintexas

Great look with two great presidents.

Marica

It’s on Grandma!! It’s on!!!

grandmaintexas

Yeah. It sure is. 😁

Marica

How do we win…If we don’t show up? We can bitch..But We gotta actually..Do something!!! Go to DC!!! Fight!!!!

Valerie Curren

Pope, alleged leader of the Catholic church abandons Christmas???

Marica

he’s awful!!! I am waiting on the Great Awakening…

Valerie Curren

I’m not Catholic so quite removed from all of that. From my perch nothing about him seems to be godly or anointed. A very tragic further sign of these desperate & troubled times.

Marica

We keep…Fighting!!! Dont give up peeps!!! For Steve..

Wolf Moon

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Linda

It says 12/19 here.

Valerie Curren

Why would this non-offensive tweet be deleted, I don’t get Jack or his Chi-com minions & overlords…

Valerie Curren

There was a short video of a black lab playing w/ an animated Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer plush toy whose nose lighted up & head turned…