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The Sopranos?


Tonawanda
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I love this series and consider it a great work of art.  I believe David Chase created a conservative work which is cleverly disguised.  IMO the series is a mystery, and the clues are hidden in every episode (for instance, why do the characters have the names they do?). 

The first job is to figure out how it is a mystery, or what mystery it is.  And the second job is to figure out the solution, which goes far, far beyond the last scene.

I figured out the "answer" years ago, but have never had anyone to discuss it with, or just to discuss the series in general. 

Once you figure out the answer you see the series in an entirely different way.

I have never found any interest in this, so my feelings would not be hurt if there is no interest here!  

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barkerjim
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It's ok to express yourself, even if no one else seems to care. 

"Those who dance are considered insane by those who cannot hear the music."
- George Carlin
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Tonawanda
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@barkerjim  TY!  I took a shot in the dark and hoped someone shared my interest.  And someone WOULD be fascinated, if there was some interest.  LOL ... but I realize, this is a very niche topic.

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scott467
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@barkerjim

"It's ok to express yourself, even if no one else seems to care. "

 

Good thing too, because I do it all the time... and no one seems to care... 😂🤣😂

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Sadie Slays
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Classics like The Sopranos could never get made in today's current environment.

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Tonawanda
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@sadieslays  So, so true.  But that is why Chase disguised his intent in the first place, IMO.  Even then he could not say what he was saying.

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Elize
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My husband and I were discussing my ignorance of tv recently and I said, "well the last tv show I watched was Tim the tool man."  He said, you mean the show "home improvement."  Lol, I shrugged, no clue.  😳

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kalbokalbs
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@elize

Congratulations on being ignorant of recent TV!

Short of clips folks post here or QTree, I don't see recent TV.  It's commonly brain washing material.  ALL of it. 

Personally, I am proud to be ignorant of current day TV. 

Current TV, one more "line of BS" to FILTER OUT.

Our eyes are WIDE OPEN to reality.

 

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Wolf Moon
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Thank you for testing out the posting ability!  This is exactly how I was hoping this would work out of the box.  Also looking to make sure the forum is welcoming to ALL kinds of conversation.

I never watched the Sopranos, but I recognize myself as a bit of an outlier in terms of what I will or won't watch.  It's a trade-off.  I loved Breaking Bad, yet only watched parts of a couple of episodes.  Great art, filled with cultural Marxist pulls (is there anything without them, now?  it's how they do art), but more importantly, as a scientist who COULD do great evil, I choose not to tempt myself in any way with "the coolness of bad science".  I obey the rules of some secret space-faring navigator's guild.  "Know thyself" among them.

As for your premise about a deep secret, I will bet you're right, and that it affects what I just said, but let it remain a secret! 😎 

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Elize
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You're not alone.  I'm aware of the name of the show but as I've said in the past I've had little exposure to tv or movies.  It was only after marrying my current husband 15 years ago that I had some exposure to tv and movies.  But he's mostly a movie buff.

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Tonawanda
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I watched all of Breaking Bad and liked it for entertainment.

LOL ... just put up a topic close to my heart not knowing if that was the sort of thing which was OK for the forum, and glad to find out it is!

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Wolf Moon
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@tonawanda - Part of my motivation of the forum was to create a place that was DIRECTLY useful as a free speech alternative to U Tree.  I may create an "Uncivil Area" in here which serves that "U Tree" purpose, but otherwise I want to create a real OPEN discussion here.  I will likely create subfora that are more closely related to the outer blog and its MAGA mission, but in the forum, I want ALL speech to grow.

The possibilities are WIDE OPEN right now.

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Valerie Curren
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@wolfmoon1776

This is part of the fellowship of like-minded "believers" (here referring to MAGA Trumpian conservatism) in a healthy & playful way.  Sometimes it's just fun to enjoy some of the other aspects of life.  Likely why Grandma's Friday Pub posts are so refreshing & Carl's scriptural/spiritual enlightenments...

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Tonawanda
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I decided to take barkerjim's advice and just say something.

How many episodes are in The Sopranos?

What is the significance of that number?

There is an episode called The Weight.  And that episode concerns weight.

But there is a song by the same name.

And the song has significance, for a specific reason.

What episode is The Weight?

And what is a homonym for weight?

The answers are NOT the solution of the mystery, but a clue.

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scott467
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@tonawanda

 

Gillian Welch, David Rawlings and Old Medicine Show, doing The Band's The Weight .

 

It would be so much fun to be able to play and sing songs like these... 😁

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS2oygw_MTg

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Tonawanda
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@scott467  Scott, I just now went to your link to listen, and I saw another link with Welch singing one of my favorite songs.  Oh my goodness.  Christian civilization.  This fits right in with The Sopranos:

https://youtu.be/Pg5hZE0FCBI

And while investigating the series, this type of thing (one amazing thing leading to another) happened over and over.  It was intended to, which is what makes it a great work of conservative and Christian art, despite appearances.

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scott467
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@tonawanda

The link to Gillian Welch and David Rawlings you posted is to a song titled "Will the Circle Be Unbroken", is that the song you meant, or am I looking for a song titled "Christian Civilization"?

I'm certainly curious to understand what Sopranos has to do with Christianity.

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scott467
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@tonawanda

"How many episodes are in The Sopranos?"

86 episodes over six seasons

.

 

"What is the significance of that number?"

If I remember right from when I was a busboy at a country club, '86' was the term for when they were out of some dish on the menu, so it was no longer available.

.

 

"There is an episode called The Weight. And that episode concerns weight.

But there is a song by the same name."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Weight_(The_Sopranos)

The Sopranos episode is number 43, or the halfway point of the series. "The title refers to the joke Ralph Cifaretto made about Ginny Sacrimoni's weight in "No Show," a joke which Johnny Sack eventually learned about from Paulie Gualtieri; this remark almost cost two arguing mobsters their lives." --Wiki

 

The song "The Weight" is, of course, by The Band, from their 1968 debut album, Music from Big Pink.

.

"And the song has significance, for a specific reason."

"What have the artists said about the song?

"Robbie Robertson credited his inspiration to the films of the Spanish surrealist director Luis Buñuel:

'He did so many films on the impossibility of sainthood. People trying to be good in Viridiana and Nazarin, people trying to do their thing. In "The Weight" it's the same thing … Someone says, 'Listen, would you do me this favor? When you get there will you say "hello" to somebody or will you give somebody this or will you pick up one of these for me? Oh? You're going to Nazareth, that's where the Martin guitar factory is. Do me a favor when you're there.' This is what it's all about. So the guy goes and one thing leads to another and it's like 'Holy s--t, what's this turned into?'' " https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/the-band/the-weight

 

.

 

"What episode is The Weight?"

#43, halfway point of the series.

.

"And what is a homonym for weight?"

Wait?

 

.

 

"The answers are NOT the solution of the mystery, but a clue."

 

I don't even know what the mystery is yet!  I never heard anything about it being a conservative work, the clues, etc.  Where do we find out more about it?  I haven't watched the series in a long time, so it might be good to see it again now.

One of my favorite episodes was the one where Paulie and Chris were stuck in a van out in the middle of the woods somewhere, and all they had to eat was a ketchup packet they found in the glove box.  I don't know if that episode was supposed to be a comedy or not, I just remember laughing most of the way through it... 😂🤣😂

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Tonawanda
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@scott467  TY so much for engaging!  I love to discuss The Sopranos.  And I have looked over the years, but have never seen anybody who "got" what the Sopranos was doing.

This first clue I mention is one of hundreds I have noticed, and I am sure there are many more.  I mentioned it because it is a perfect example of how The Sopranos works.  

SPOILER ALERT !!!!!!  I am going to explain this clue.  Scott gave all the right answers, and I am going to put them together.

Let me first say, IMO the entire series was written before it was produced.  I have many reasons for thinking that, not pertinent now, but I say it specifically because it is relevant to the mystery.  True, episodes were modified and changed as it was produced, in order to reflect "current" events, and to give the illusion that it was being made up season by season.  That illusion was heavily promoted as the series went on, and that illusion is necessary to the "meaning" of the series.  But it WAS an illusion.

The series has 86 episodes.  That (IMO) was not a coincidence, but pre-determined.  (And in the future I am going to drop the "IMO" because I think people reading this know it is my opinion, and not statements of fact necessarily).

As Scott indicated, "86" is shorthand used to indicate "something."  Scott had the experience of using it to mean that the country club kitchen was out of a dish on the menu, so it was not available.  And "86" is used in a similar fashion in different contexts in that same sort of way.  Here is the Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86_(term)

"86" also means to murder, to get rid of, to bury, to MAKE unavailable, etc. 

As Scott says, episode 43 is called The Weight, and it is therefore halfway through the series.  The episode concerns a dispute over the weight of a mobster's wife.  So, literally AND ostensibly, the episode concerns weight.

I say ostensibly, because (as Scott says) The Weight is also a song by the band.  The lyrics are here:

https://genius.com/The-band-the-weight-lyrics

I draw attention to the first words:

I pulled into Nazareth 

Was feelin' about half-past dead

But I recommend reading all the lyrics, which have strong Christian undertones.  Elsewhere in this thread, I am going to reply to Valerie, who AMAZINGLY hit upon the underlying meaning/spirit of The Sopranos without even watching it!

And Scott guessed right about the homonym: "wait" is a homonym for "weight."  Waiting is the pertinent concept at that point in the series, and throughout.

To answer Scott's question about where to find out about the clues and the meaning, the answer is HERE, if we continue, because no one that I am aware of has ever figured out The Sopranos.  As the years went by I expected someone else would figure it out, but that has never happened, to my knowledge.  The clues are not obvious, they are subtle, but they are brilliant.

In episode 43, is Tony half past dead?  That points to the mystery.

 

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Aubergine
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Well, now you make me want to go back an watch the series again!

Interesting take, and questions.

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Wolf Moon
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@aubergine - You're IN!

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scott467
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@wolfmoon1776

 

Wolf, I have a post in moderation, probably because I included a youtube video link.  Do videos not show up here like they do on the Qtree?

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Wolf Moon
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@scott467 - let me go look.  I believe that we would have to buy more add-ons for the forum, but that is within budget, IMO.

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Wolf Moon
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@scott467 - yes - looks like to embed video, we will need the add-ons for here, too.

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scott467
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@wolfmoon1776

Thanks for checking 👍

 

It looks like I have another LONG post awaiting moderation, it's a reply to Tonawanda's comments about the Sopranos.

 

I was expecting Susie Soprano to chime in, but no sign of her yet 😁

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Wolf Moon
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@scott467 - yeah, this is weird - I am NOT finding any posts in moderation.  It may be that TONAWANDA gets them, but I'm not seeing them.  There is no moderation queue for your replies that I can find anywhere.  I will keep looking!  We had a problem with hidden comments on the Q&A format thread, so it's possible we have HIDERS here, too!

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scott467
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@wolfmoon1776

I just found "you were mentioned in a thread" notifications in my spam folder, and checked back here, and see the replies to my comments now.

 

Also, the long reply to Tonawanda is no longer in moderation 👍

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Wolf Moon
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@scott467 - Yes - I think that comment was one of three that released after you were out of moderation, but likely required a page refresh to see!

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Valerie Curren
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Before reading the replies I wanted to say that due to my Christian world view I can sometimes get interesting insights, that I believe are Holy Spirit driven, through almost any media I experience.  It's like God is Constantly Speaking or Singing to us (think Aslan in CS Lewis' Narnian creation tale The Magician's Nephew) in our personal love language but we often choose to not tune in very well to His frequency.

It's like when God made Balaam's ass/donkey speak.  this prophet was going about his hired business to attempt to curse Israel & God had the donkey talk to get his attention & to even save his life.

I'm not always reading the Bible, worshipping, praying, or listening to sermons; in fact I'm usually doing other things.  So even in my "fleshly" pursuits God is still there in the midst of it all trying to get my attention & to reveal Himself & His truths to me, to us all--if only we have eyes to see, ears to hear, & hearts to understand.  That's the magnitude of his love that He's always yearning for us & trying to draw us deeper into Himself...

 

I've never watched the Sopranos but just how you opened the topic makes me want to look for the show!

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Elize
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Well that explains one of the reasons I'm drawn to your posts.  I trust the spirit to lead.

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Valerie Curren
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@elize

Amen!  though I hope that didn't come off as preachy; I rarely, if ever, actually live up to my world view, saved by grace & all 🙂 

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Elize
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@valeriecurren not preachy at all.  Frankly given the spiritual warfare that we are experiencing in our God given to us country atm I am a firm believer in everyone's right to stand in their faith and holler it from the mountaintops.  If someone is offended by my love of and belief in God, that's their personal problem.

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Valerie Curren
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@elize

Well said & I agree!  There is definitely heavy spiritual warfare going on & entrenched forces of darkness & deception trying to enslave us all!

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Tonawanda
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@valeriecurren  I am stunned!  Elsewhere I described The Sopranos as being a conservative work of art, which it is, but it is also a Christian work of art.  And, Valerie, I think you described The Sopranos, or an essential part of it, better than I could, and I watched the series more than a couple of times!  Wonderful!

And your entire post is simply full of beautiful insight.

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scott467
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@tonawanda

Tonawanda, I have a long reply to your initial post on the Sopranos, but it is awaiting moderation at the moment 👍

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Tonawanda
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@scott467  I look forward to it!

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Wolf Moon
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@tonawanda - check to see if YOU have to moderate the long posts on YOUR thread, because I'm not finding anything for me to moderate!

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Wolf Moon
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@tonawanda - OK - I think Scott's long post DID come out during my initial release of his first group of posts from moderation!

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Tonawanda
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@wolfmoon1776  I do not see it, and do not know how to moderate.  I looked for a "moderate" type icon, but it is not registering with me.

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Wolf Moon
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@tonawanda - Thanks!  It looks like the system is NOT enabling topic authors as moderators.  I figured out what happened with Scott.  All is well.

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Tonawanda
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@wolfmoon1776  Hope it was saved!  I am very interested in what he said.

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Valerie Curren
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@scott467

Did your "long reply" ever show up?  Reading along below it sounds like TW hasn't seen it yet but WM has...hmmm

There is a pretty long comment above a bit, perhaps you could reply w/ the date & time of your comment that you were referencing to confirm it's visible & the rest of us can see if we can also locate it--Thanks!

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Valerie Curren
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Bummer, I was in the midst of editing my comment/post immediately above w/ location info on a long post/comment of Scott's

 

 
 
 
& the time to edit expired so only my original comment/post appears, not the extra work.  At least the whole comment/post didn't disappear--just FYI for anyone keeping track of how things work here
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Tonawanda
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@valeriecurren  Valerie, can you elaborate on the location of Scott's reply?  I am definitely not understanding something.  Not unusual!

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Valerie Curren
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@tonawanda

OK, here is the short link:

https://www.theqtree.com/community/postid/123/

Here is the full link:

https://www.theqtree.com/community/main-forum/the-sopranos/#post-123

Here is what I see on the forum describing his comment:

scott467
 
 
 
& here is an attempt at describing where his comment appears to me on your forum page:
 
Well YOU replied to the comment in question so you obviously SAW it at some point...here is the intro to your reply:
 
Tonawanda

 
 
 

@scott467  TY so much for engaging!  I love to discuss The Sopranos.  And I have looked over the years, but have never seen anybody who "got" what the Sopranos was doing.

...

This reply of yours to Scott also contains "SPOILER ALERT" within the reply, fyi.

SO, I just was hoping Scott would Confirm it that was his Long Comment or if there is Another long comment still out in the ether somewhere that some people have seen & some others haven't.

Hope this helps!

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Tonawanda
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@valeriecurren  It is Friday morning (23rd), and I have not seen Scott's reply.  I wonder if I am missing something, like a button I need to push, or something needs to be enabled.

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Valerie Curren
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@tonawanda

Here's Scott's reply to me that seems to confirm that the long comment I was referring to is the same one he meant...

 

scott467
 
 
 

@valeriecurren

Yes, I just checked in to this discussion for the first time in a couple days, and saw my long reply above, date stamped Apr 20, 2021 12:40 am, which Tonawanda has since replied to 👍

...

VC here again, sorry for any confusion that I caused 🙄 🍟 😳 

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scott467
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@valeriecurren

Yes, I just checked in to this discussion for the first time in a couple days, and saw my long reply above, date stamped Apr 20, 2021 12:40 am, which Tonawanda has since replied to 👍

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Tonawanda
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@scott467  I totally misunderstood!  I thought your reply was to my reply!  Now I get it!  The timing through me off.

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scott467
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@tonawanda

I'm very confused now 😂🤣😂

I only had one long reply, it was to your original thread-starter post 👍😁

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Valerie Curren
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@tonawanda

Now it's my turn to be stunned!  I hope you caught that I've NEVER watched the Sopranos & was more referring to how it seems God can still reach me even when I'm focused on any/everything else but Him.  He is Truly the Lover of our souls!

God Bless & thank you for the high praise/encouragement--much appreciated ❤️ 

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Tonawanda
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@valeriecurren  Valerie, your post was very meaningful to me because it described my circumstances so well.  "Ditto"

I DID catch that you never watched the series.  And that was what amazed me, because you caught what I believe is part of the essential meaning.

The Holy Spirit IS always working.  And an aspect of the Holy Spirit is working in silence.  We have to ask, and we have to be open.  

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Valerie Curren
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@tonawanda

Lovely!

Ask & you will receive

Seek & you will find

Knock & the door will be opened unto you

Even the thief on the cross, near the end of his earthly life, was still able to encounter the Lord in such a deeply personal & meaningful way.  It's amazing how much love flows from the cross & like with the Father's prodigal He is ever watching, even when we are far off, so He can run to receive us when we finally choose to head toward Home!

https://youtu.be/MDw_9vvLcWg

I'm pretty sure that I touched on those themes, perhaps obliquely, in my first ever Q-Tree post, Luna Wolf Pack.  God is so good to us all!!!

https://wqth.wordpress.com/2020/05/02/luna-wolf-pack/

I guess that post didn't make the jump to the new Q-Tree...

Here's how that post is described "Who & what inspires us, using Horus Rising as a springboard to the topic. Attempting to glimpse the heart of our beloved Alpha Wolf…"

"We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord, & we pray that all unity will one day be restored.  & they'll know we are Christians by our love!"

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scott467
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@valeriecurren It's definitely rated "R" for strong language and other things, FYI.

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Valerie Curren
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@scott467

Thanks Scott, sadly that's not necessarily off-putting to me very often.

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Tonawanda
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@scott467  True.  Chase did that on purpose, and that is what makes it a great work of art.  It is also why people do not see the meaning of what he is doing, which is also what makes it a great work of art.

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Valerie Curren
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@tonawanda

Being Salt & Light in & to a fallen world in a way that some of the lost can receive the perhaps subtle message of Truth...

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