“We do not believe any group of men adequate enough or wise enough to operate without scrutiny or without criticism. We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it, that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. We know that in secrecy error undetected will flourish and subvert.” –J. Robert Oppenheimer
Joe Biden never won. This is our Real President – 45, 46, 47.
AND our beautiful REALFLOTUS.
This Stormwatch Monday Open Thread remains open – VERY OPEN – a place for everybody to post whatever they feel they would like to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA/KAG/KMAG world (with KMAG being a bit of both).
Yep, Kurt has noticed that lots of people are getting twanging schadenböners.
And you do not have to be male to get this kind of böner.
Hat tip to Scott (I think–if it wasn’t Scott it was 4GodAndCountry) for this video, which implies a LOT of schadenböners in our future.
[WOLF EDIT – for whatever reason this YouTube video no longer embeds, even as the shortened URL (below), so I have converted both URLs to links which open up in a new tab.]
This is the WQTH Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Poltical correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines, here, with an addendum on 20191110.
We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.
And remember Wheatie’s Rules:
1. No food fights 2. No running with scissors. 3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone. 4. Zeroth rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government get your guns. 5. Rule one of gun safety: The gun is always loaded. 5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty. 6. Rule two of gun safety: Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy. 7. Rule three: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. 8. Rule the fourth: Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
What a roller coaster ride these last couple of weeks have been!!
Note that gold was below 3,000 earlier this week because of the general market panic over the tariffs. Silver, alas, hasn’t been keeping up with gold. After a couple of days spent practically in lockstep with gold at about 100:0, silver is just being left behind. (Are Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins in the room?) That was as of Thursday; on Friday silver played some catchup so over the week as a whole it gained against gold slightly. Or you can think of it as gold falling over two ounces of silver. Take your pick which one is the measuring stick.
Even platinum had some joy this last week, but that was after dropping below $900 for a bit.
*The SteveInCO Federal Reserve Note Suckage Index (FRNSI) is a measure of how much the dollar has inflated. It’s the ratio of the current price of gold, to the number of dollars an ounce of fine gold made up when the dollar was defined as 25.8 grains of 0.900 gold. That worked out to an ounce being $20.67+71/387 of a cent. (Note gold wasn’t worth this much back then, thus much gold was $20.67 71/387ths. It’s a subtle distinction. One ounce of gold wasn’t worth $20.67 back then, it was $20.67.) Once this ratio is computed, 1 is subtracted from it so that the number is zero when the dollar is at its proper value, indicating zero suckage.
FKatzoid Out?
No, FKatzoid isn’t going glober, but apparently he took enough blowback for going after Lisbeth the way he did, that he’s rebranding himself. Note the following non-apology apology.
Potassium and Argon
Good old potassium. A very earthy element. In fact, by weight the Earth’s crust is 2.6 percent potassium. It’s common in minerals like feldspars, micas, clay minerals, tephra, and evaporites (e.g., dry lakebed salt). In other words, it’s common.
Common stuff! So why is it you never see it? It’s one of the “Alkali metals” like sodium (it’s sodium’s big brother), and thus it’s so reactive that pure potassium metal doesn’t last long. In fact, expose potassium metal to the air and it will form potassium peroxide in mere seconds on exposure to air. The layer formed will flake off, exposing more of the metal, and the process repeats itself.
If something can’t stand being in just ordinary air, you’re not going to see it lying around on the ground in lumps.
Being in that left-hand column of the table, potassium can’t resist just dropping an electron on the floor and becoming an ion. So it ends up having an important role in biochemistry as much metabolism is regulated by the concentration of potassium and sodium ions. It also shows up in various proteins and enzymes. It’s important stuff.
It’s rather famously found in bananas.
And it just happens to be just a teensy bit radioactive. Potassium, symbol K (you can thank the Germans for that), is element #19, and it has three isotopes found in nature. 39K is stable, and 93.3 percent of all potassium is this isotope. 41K is also stable, and it takes up 6.73 percent of potassium. (Those numbers appear to add up to over 100 (100.03) percent thanks to a round off error.) Well within that round-off error is the natural occurrence of the third naturally found isotope of potassium, 40K, which makes up 0.0120% of all potassium. In other words barely one atom in every ten thousand.
Potassium-40 (I’m going to go with K-40 or potassium-40–and similarly for other elements and other isotopes–from here on out, since superscripting is a slight pain in Wordpiss) has a half life of 1.248 x 109 years, which means it’s one of those “primordial” isotopes that has been with us all along. And it’s a bit odd, in one respect. Up to now, everything I’ve discussed has one method of decay; it spits out an alpha particle, or maybe a beta particle. But potassium-40 has three decay modes.
89.28 percent of the time, it decays by beta radiation, which means the nucleus gains a positive charge but stays at the same mass number. Gaining one charge makes it an atom of the 20th element, calcium (Ca), and in particular calcium-40.
The other two modes are similar to each other, or rather, they have similar results. 10.72 percent of the time the potassium-40 nucleus will “capture” an electron. The inner shell electrons spend some time actually within the nucleus and that can be enough in this case, for beta decay to run backwards, essentially. The K-40 nucleus loses a positive charge but retains the 40 mass number; that makes it element 18, argon (Ar), specifically argon-40. The third mode is the nucleus emitting a positron (also known as positive beta decay); this happens 0.001% of the time. But that too lowers the charge of the nucleus, and argon-40 is the result of this decay mode, too.
All uranium is radioactive. Same with thorium. Only a tiny fraction of potassium is radioactive. But potassium is so overwhelmingly common compared to the other two, that most of the radioactive activity in the Earth is due to potassium.
So show those bananas some respect.
Given how common potassium is in minerals, K-40 seems like a good candidate for radiometric dating. And it has two distinct daughter isotopes to choose from since it can decay into either argon-40 or calcium-40.
Calcium is even more abundant in the Earth’s crust than is potassium. Furthermore its most common isotope by far is calcium-40 (at 96.9 percent of the total). [Calcium has four other stable isotopes and another, a rare one, with a half life of 19 quintillion years, which is effectively stable.] Remember that K-40 is quite a small proportion of all potassium, and you can see that its decay into Ca-40 is just not going change the Ca-40 amounts by much…so it will be really hard to see the change in ratio.
Argon, on the other hand is a very different matter! It won’t combine with anything–it’s a noble gas–so it’s unlikely to get incorporated into any mineral except possibly by being physically trapped in the magma somehow–this is not quite impossible but very unlikely. It’s far more likely to escape the magma. Various environmental factors can change how well this works, so this effects the size of the error bars when doing dating. But for the most part, if we see any argon-40 in a rock, it’s almost certainly decay product, similar to the reasoning used for lead appearing in zircons.
So we have potassium-argon dating, also called K-Ar dating.
(So for Pat Fredericks, this is the sort of dating where you wait until her parents argon, before doing anything with his potassium-rich banana. If you don’t take care wait long enough, you might end up utilizing uranium-lead dating.)
This method can work with any rock sample over a few thousand years old. It won’t work well with samples younger than that.
First, you take your rock sample and heat it enough to release trapped gases. Use a mass spectrometer to measure the argon-40. Use flame photometry or atomic absorption spectroscopy to quantify the potassium. You just want to know how much potassium is in the mineral, you don’t need to be specific as to isotope.
Here’s the basic formula.
Note that the amount of argon in the sample is divided by 0.109, which is the factor used to adjust for the fact that not all K-40 decays into Ar-40. By doing this division you get a number indicating the total number of decay products of K-40 decay (not just the argon ones). In the formula above Kf is the amount of K-40 in the sample now. Often though they simply measure the total amount of potassium and multiply by the ratio of K-40 to K-39+K-41 (0.000117/0.932581).
This is best used for dating minerals and rocks over 100,000 years old. Some of the rocks it is best used in are magnetic, so we can check the history of earth’s magnetic field by measuring the magnetism of the rocks and then determining their age.
We were even able to send a mini lab to Mars on the Curiosity rover, which was used to date a rock from Mars, ON Mars. This was very rough but the result was between 3.86 to 4.56 billion years old.
But there’s a bit more to this story.
Air is about 1 percent argon gas (0.934 percent to be precise). Almost all (99.6%) of the argon in the air is argon-40.
When we look at argon in space, though the vast majority of it is argon-36; the sun’s argon is 84.6 percent Ar-36 (based on sampling the solar wind), the outer gas giants are similarly rich in Ar-36–they’ll have retained what was in the original nebula. (This is logical because stars build up lighter elements by combining He-4 nuclei, and argon-36 is nine of those put together.) This suggests that Earth lost all of its original argon supply when it was very hot shortly after formation, and what argon we are breathing now is almost all radiogenic argon-40. Furthermore smaller worlds like Mercury, Mars and Titan all have some argon in their atmospheres, with argon-40 the vast majority of it. They too have radioactive decay going on.
If you think about it, it’s a bit freaky, you’re breathing stuff that used to be potassium with every breath. Fortunately it isn’t potassium any more because that would do a number on your lungs.
I haven’t found numbers on this, but this amount of argon in our air is yet another indication (as if not having short-half life primordial radioisotopes isn’t enough) that the Earth is old–as well as Mars, Titan and Mercury.
In fact this effect is so pronounced that if you measure the atomic weight of argon here on Earth, it’s higher than that of potassium, in spite of being before potassium on the periodic table. This was a bit confusing at first to people like Mendeleev when the periodic table was being developed.
Joe Biden never won. This is our Real President – 45, 46, 47.
AND our beautiful REALFLOTUS.
This Stormwatch Monday Open Thread remains open – VERY OPEN – a place for everybody to post whatever they feel they would like to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA/KAG/KMAG world (with KMAG being a bit of both).
We should all remember Deplorable Patriot and Wheatie as we push forward with the fight. This is NOT over by any means.
Fight! Fight! Fight! Because JUSTICE must be served on those who foisted the “Vax” shit on us. And for all the other things they have done to this country.
You failed to pay attention to this advice. You went out of your way to do the opposite. You chose to rub our faces in it, imprison those who dared complain, and even to kill our people. Now you shall pay just a tiny fraction of the real price, Ratfuckers.
What is it that feeds our battle, yet starves our victory?
RINO scum. Like Murkowski and Collins.
That’s OK. We go around ’em for now.
January 6 Tapes Reminder
OK…I’m sick and tired of reminding you to no effect, Speaker Johnson, so I’ll do the more emotionally satisfying thing and call you a cowardly, lying, fraudulent sack of diarrhetic monkey shit.
Johnson, you are a cowardly, lying, fraudulent sack of diarrhetic monkey shit!
A Caution
Just remember…we might replace the RINO candidates. (Or we might not. The record is mixed even though there is more MAGA than there used to be.) But that will make no difference in the long run if the party officials, basically the Rhonna McDaniels (or however that’s spelled–I suspect it’s RINO), don’t get replaced.
State party chairs, vice chairs, secretaries and so on, and the same at county levels, have huge influence on who ultimately gets nominated, and if these party wheelhorses are RINOs, they will work tirelessly to put their own pukey people on the ballot. In fact I’d not be surprised if some of our “MAGA” candidates are in fact, RINO plants, encouraged to run by the RINO party leadership when they realized that Lyn Cheney (and her ilk) were hopelessly compromised as effective candidates. The best way for them to deal with the opposition, of course, is to run it themselves.
Running good candidates is only HALF of the battle!
Justice Must Be Done.
The prior election must be acknowledged as fraudulent, and steps must be taken to prosecute the fraudsters and restore integrity to the system.
Nothing else matters at this point. Talking about trying again in 2022 or 2024 is hopeless otherwise. Which is not to say one must never talk about this, but rather that one must account for this in ones planning; if fixing the fraud is not part of the plan, you have no plan.
Kamala Harris has a new nickname since she finally went west from DC to El Paso Texas: Westward Hoe.
Lawyer Appeasement Section
OK now for the fine print.
This is the WQTH Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Poltical correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines, here, with an addendum on 20191110.
We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.
And remember Wheatie’s Rules:
1. No food fights 2. No running with scissors. 3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone. 4. Zeroth rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government get your guns. 5. Rule one of gun safety: The gun is always loaded. 5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty. 6. Rule two of gun safety: Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy. 7. Rule three: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. 8. Rule the fourth: Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
(Hmm a few extras seem to have crept in.)
Paper Spot Prices
All prices are Kitco Ask, 3PM MT Friday (at that time the markets close for the weekend). (Note: most media quotes are for the bid…the price paid by the market makers, not the ask, which is what they will sell at. I figure the ask is more relevant to people like us who wish we could afford to buy these things. In the case of gold the difference is usually about a dollar, for the PGMs the spread is much wider.)
There’s no sugarcoating things. All of the metals except gold took a beating on Thursday. Then on Friday things got simpler. All of the metals took a beating.
At one point on Friday, gold was down over 90 bucks. As it is, by the end of the day it was down $77.90.
Gold was up over 3100 earlier this week and even crossed the magic $100/gram line (equivalent to $3110.35). I noticed on Thursday it had slipped below that line just a touch, looked at it Friday morning, read something ending in 20-ish dollars, and thought it had blooped up over the line again…then I realized it hadn’t gone up ten bucks, it had gone down ninety.
Silver took a harder hit. Note that the gold:silver ratio is now OVER A HUNDRED.
As a side note at least sometimes I title this section Paper Spot Prices (or something similar to that) as the spot price is ultimately derived from the commodities markets, which in turn trade paper gold and silver; futures that you’re expected to sell to cut your losses (or realize a profit). Since most people are in that market to make a buck, there are huge amounts of silver or gold contracts out there that will never actually be executed. This is always true. It’s when someone decides, “no I am taking delivery” that life gets entertaining; sometimes a LOT of people do that and then the person on the sell side of the contract is legally obligated to deliver. So more than likely he has to go out and buy 1000 ounces of silver, or 100 of gold. (Or 50 of platinum, when that market isn’t in a coma.) Suddenly, outside of the futures market there’s panic buying; people desperate to get their hands on the commodity they shorted; often paying much more than the buyer is going to pay them.
This can often lead to the market price for physical metal being quite different from the spot prices; a few years ago you simply couldn’t get gold for less than $200 over spot (and that was when it was much lower than it is even after today’s beating).
In the meantime, Silver is on sale right now folks!
*The SteveInCO Federal Reserve Note Suckage Index (FRNSI) is a measure of how much the dollar has inflated. It’s the ratio of the current price of gold, to the number of dollars an ounce of fine gold made up when the dollar was defined as 25.8 grains of 0.900 gold. That worked out to an ounce being $20.67+71/387 of a cent. (Note gold wasn’t worth this much back then, thus much gold was $20.67 71/387ths. It’s a subtle distinction. One ounce of gold wasn’t worth $20.67 back then, it was $20.67.) Once this ratio is computed, 1 is subtracted from it so that the number is zero when the dollar is at its proper value, indicating zero suckage.
Not Giving A F*ck
Kalbo (and then others) brought this to yesterday’s daily:
BREAKING: A White House official comments on President Trump's current "thinking".
There are multiple ways to not give a f*ck. In this particular case Trump has decided he has a job to do, that 80 million Americans (at least) elected him to do that job, and if you don’t get out of his way you will be lucky if all that happens is you end up with his footprints all over you as he tramples you.
Flerfs Eat Their Own
Nothing like leaving a cult to get those left behind to pull out the long knives. And sometimes you don’t even have to leave, just be nearby when someone else does.
Mark Sargent (he’s probably the most famous Flat Earther to the general public; he’s the fairly clean-cut, blond guy with the baseball cap who gets interviewed a lot and showed up in documentaries) and Dave Weiss (Flat Earth Dave, the Potato, Dirth [his channel is DITRH], the guy with the leaky app), and two other prominent Flerfs who have not been named–have been sent “Cease and Desist” letters by lawyers for three ex-Flerfs for claims the flerfs have made about them. (Text visible at approximately the 5:50 mark). One of ex-Flerfs is Patricia Steeres, who was Mark Sargent’s co-host until recently, then she left. (Mark has characterized it as a “breakup” even though they never dated.) The other two are Robby Davidson and “Paul on the Plane.” (These two are not ones I am familiar with except I think Robby Davidson is known for having quit Flat Earth as soon as he realized Dave Weiss and Eric Dubay had no interest in going to Antarctica in spite of saying so earlier. Too obviously they were bluffing and their bluff had been called.)
Did they cease and desist? Well, no. MC Toon did a livestream over 4 1/2 hours demonstrating that Sargent, at least, did not do so. I’m going to link it but I certainly don’t expect you to watch it unless you are an absolute glutton for punishment:
[Another fun activity on these long MC Toon livestreams is he has people sign into the chat and try to warn people that Dirth’s app is leaky, just to see how fast their comments get censored and themselves get banned. Clearly Menagerie is in their employ. He will also call the Flerfs up and leave taunting voicemails when they don’t answer.]
Next…some Flerfs are going after Lisbeth Acosta. Lisbeth is the Flerf who won a free trip to Antarctica, which turned out to be a sham prize. Will Duffy was suckered into awarding it and then the donor turned out to be a Flerf troll. There was an INSTANT rallying of globers to contribute to pay for her ticket so she got to go anyway. Apparently what she saw did not convince her, though since she decided to be Mark Sargent’s co host when Patricia Steeres left. (McToon begged her not to take the job.)
Sticking with Flat Earth isn’t enough though, since Fkatzoid decided to go after her.
Apparently, Lisbeth was prostituted out to the other Final Experiment goers to get them to toe the Globe Earth line when they came back. Fkatzoid calls her the “Village Bicycle.” This too is worthy of a lawsuit, however Fkatzoid lives in South Africa and has no money. (His job is mixing paints.) Perhaps some of the others can be gone after.
So not only is this guy the absolute best evidence for the Dunning-Kruger effect that I have ever seen (remember he argued against Critical Think’s weight experiment, and also go into it with Will Duffy about the location of the south pole), he is an absolutely shitty individual who would deserve a throat punch and a curb stomp even if he wasn’t an idiot.
Isochron Dating
Recall from last time that uranium-lead dating done on zircons lets one assume there were no daughter lead isotopes in the zircons when the zircons were first formed. That’s because the zircon crystallization process rejects lead while accepting uranium. However, there’s always the possibility that after some period some of the daughter isotopes (the lead) will leach out of the zircon crystals, which will have the effect of making the dating result look younger than it actually is.
The fact that there are two different pairs of uranium-lead parent-daughter isotopes allows us not only to detect that that has happened, but to correct for it, by taking several samples out of the same igneous rocks and then plotting the results on a “concordia diagram” then drawing a straight line to intercept the curve plotted for ideal cases where no lead has been lost.
Zircons can often turn out to be much older than the rocks they are in; they melt at a very high temperature and granitic magma doesn’t typically get that hot. So if you find a zircon in an igneous rock, it might be much older than that rock.
So to use uranium-lead dating in other places (not zircon crystals) we need a way to account for the likelihood that there was lead present in the rock when it formed. Then uranium lead dating can be used in more situations. And we can use it for other sequences, for example the rubidium-strontium decay (rubidium-87 to strontium-87 by beta decay, half life 49,720 million years; rubidium is element 37, strontium is element 38) and the samarium-neodymium decay (samarium-147 to neodymium-143 by alpha decay, half life 106,000 million years; samarium is element 62, neodymium is element 60). (There is another isotope of samarium, Sm-146, that has a half life of 92 million years, decaying by alpha decay to Nd-142, which could conceivably be used, however, that half life is just short enough that we can no longer detect any natural traces of samarium-146…so that clock has run out.)
All three sequences–four, really since there are two uranium-lead sequences–can benefit from isochron dating. (Isochron comes from the Greek for “same time.”) They aren’t the only ones, but they seem to be mentioned most often when I find an article about isochron dating.
Isochron dating is done by taking multiple samples. It works so long as: the samples all have the same origin (minerals from the same rock, rocks from the same geological unit)–this ensures that all samples had the same initial isotopic composition. And we assume nothing leaks out of the rock over time (the opposite of the situation with the zircon crystals, which could lose lead over time).
Note that there is no assumption that the daughter isotope was absent from the rock initially.
One more thing that is needed, is a non-radiogenic isotope of the daughter element. For rubidium-strontium strontium-86 fits the bill; nothing decays into that isotope. And for samarium-neodymium, neodymium-144 is used. Again nothing decays into it. (However, it is very slightly radioactive with a half life of 2,290,000,000 million years, about 170,000 times the age of the universe. Not enough to matter; in fact so little of it has decayed so far we can’t even think of using it for dating in a hypothetical neodymium-cerium dating sequence; we’d get no reading at all.)
Let me put that into a handy-dandy table:
Method Rb-87->Sr-87 Sm-147->Nd-143 U-238->Pb-206
Half-life (My) 49,720 106,000 4,468
Non-radiogenic or reference isotope strontium-86 neodymium-144 lead-204
Rubidium and strontium are admittedly obscure to the man in the street, but they are workaday elements, appearing to some extent in many rocks. Rubidium is potassium’s big brother, somewhat rare but it will substitute for potassium in minerals. Strontium, similarly is calcium’s bigger brother. Calcium is very common in the Earth’s crust, and strontium atoms will occasionally substitute for them. These elements are stable, or thought of as being stable, but as it happens 27.8 percent of all rubidium is actually rubidium-87, so your typical sample of rubidium is actually weakly radioactive. The daughter strontium-87 isotope is 7 percent of all strontium, while the reference isotope Sr-86 is 9.86 percent of all strontium. (Almost all the rest of the strontium is Sr-88.)
Samarium and neodymium are rare earth elements…yes, actually rare earths. They tend to be dispersed throughout the crust and there are few ores. Nevertheless, “rare” is a bit of misnomer; on average there is about three times as much samarium in the crust as there is tin. 15 percent of all samarium is samarium-147 (which means that samarium-147 by itself is roughly half as common as tin), but with a 106 billion year half life, you can probably think of it as just barely radioactive. The decay product, Nd-143, is roughly 12.2 percent of all neodymium, and the reference isotope, Nd-144, is 23.8 percent of all neodymium (and is very, very, very weakly radioactive).
So yes these isotopes can be found in rocks, fairly readily.
How Isochrons Work
Recall from last time we showed formulae expressing radioactive decay just showing the simple case where we started out with no daughter isotope. Here is a slightly more complex formula for the number of daughter isotope atoms:
This one has a D0 term, which is the initial concentration of daughter isotope atoms; i.e., what was in the rock when it formed. n is the present number of parent isotope atoms. The entire second term is the number of daughter isotope atoms that have resulted from the decay of the parent isotope, from the formation of the rock to the present day. Note that this formula is written in terms of the decay constant, not the half life. See the prior post for more information on this, but it’s 1 divided by [the half life multiplied by the natural logarithm of 2].
Since the isotopes are measured by mass spectrometry, it’s more convenient to deal with the ratios between the numbers, not the absolute numbers. So here is where we introduce the reference isotope (the non-radiogenic one); we’re going to divide all terms by that number, to get a bunch of isotope ratios.
The first term is the total amount of daughter isotope, divided by the total amount of the reference (non-radiogenic) isotope. This is something we measure. The second term is the initial amount of daughter isotope, divided by the amount of reference isotope. We don’t know this, because we don’t know the initial amount of daughter isotope. (But note, we’re not claiming this number is zero, as we were with the zircons.) The third parentheses surround the amount of parent isotope today, divided by the amount of reference isotope. This is something we can measure. The final bit is the proportion of daughter isotope generated by decay (so far) of the parent isotope; which depends on the age, which we don’t know.
But this is very very similar to:
y = b + xm
…which is the “generic” equation for a line (albeit rearranged a bit). b is where the line crosses the y axis, and m is the slope of the line. So if we substitute as follows:
y = D*/Dref (we measure this) b = D0/Dref (we don’t know this but it’s constant for a given rock) x = Pt/Dref (we measure this) m = eλt – 1 (we don’t know this but it’s constant for a given rock)
…well we might be able to do something about this. Note that in the line equation, b and m are supposed to be constants. Indeed for a specific rock, of some age (which we don’t know yet), D0/Dref (b) is indeed a constant; it should be the same everywhere within the rock. As should eλt – 1 because every part of a given rock is the same age, this is m. Of course m is the slope of our straight line. Note that it gets steeper the higher t goes.
The two things that correspond to x and y are the things we actually measure. So we can plot our measured y against our measured x and now we have one point on this line. Well by itself one point isn’t useful. We expect m will be a positive number, and b will be above zero (since there is more than zero daughter isotope in the rock)
So take another sample, of a different mineral in the same rock. Then take a few more. Plot them, y versus x.
If all of those points fall on a straight line…we can draw the line and figure out m and b. The first will tell us how old the rock is (by solving for t), the second is actually going to tell you how much daughter isotope there was initially; information that might be interesting but doesn’t directly help us date the rock.
If the line is not straight, something probably happened to the rock after it formed, that invalidates our assumptions. If you have six points and only one is out of line, you can treat it as an outlier (but of course when you write up your paper, you point this out!).
Examples
Here’s a sample (apparently not a “live” sample but just an illustration). Note that different minerals from the same rock are all analyzed, as well as “whole rock”
The X axis is the present day parent (rubidium 87) – reference (strontium-86) ratio (matching what I showed above as being “x”), and the Y axis is the daughter (strontium 87) to reference (strontium-86) isotope ratio. The y intercept is labeled as being the initial daughter/reference ratio; that tells us how much daughter isotope there was originally. And the slope is our decay term, the steeper the slope, the higher the value of t is.
Here’s an actual plot from a real measurement. Note that three of the minerals tested are clustered very close together near the left hand margin, and the computed ratio of daughter isotope present at the beginning, to the reference isotope, is 70 percent. And finally notice the age: 609.5 million years (give or take 2.5 million years).
So the short version of this is, isochrons can help you identify and correct for the sorts of things that those with a little bit of knowledge of radiometric dating might bring up as objections, of the form “but what if there was some daughter isotope already present?” But it will only work if the rock hasn’t lost any daughter isotope since it was formed; if it has, the line won’t be straight. The good news is when this happens, the data says it happened, and if you’re alert you won’t be fooled.
A bit more of this (I want to cover potassium-argon dating in particular, and then discuss carbon-14 dating even though it’salmost totally irrelevant to geology) and we’ll get back to the main narrative.
Joe Biden never won. This is our Real President – 45, 46, 47.
AND our beautiful REALFLOTUS.
This Stormwatch Monday Open Thread remains open – VERY OPEN – a place for everybody to post whatever they feel they would like to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA/KAG/KMAG world (with KMAG being a bit of both).
Our various sister sites, listed in the Blogroll in the sidebar
Our beloved country is under Occupation by hostile forces.
Daily outrage and epic phuckery abound.
We can give in to despair…or we can be defiant and fight back in any way that we can.
Joe Biden didn’t win.
And we will keep saying Joe Biden didn’t win until we get His Fraudulency out of our White House.
Wolfie’s Wheatie’s Word of the Week:
lepid
adjective
pleasant
charming
amusing
jocose
And also when capitalized (Lepid)
a brand of the statin drug atorvastatin from India
Used in a sentence
Naming a statin drug “Lepid” is – well – interesting, amusing, and maybe even lepid.
MUSIC!
Searching for lepid and music led to a single song by “Lepid” called “Shill”, but looking for a video of that one let to “The Shill Song” – which is funnier.
What is it that feeds our battle, yet starves our victory?
Our Turn
[Yes, I did this one just after the election. But it was too cathartic to just throw away.]
We’ve often seen that quote from David Plouffe: “It is not enough to simply beat Trump. He must be destroyed thoroughly. His kind must not rise again.”
This was of course a declaration of intent to annihilate not just Trump, but rather “his kind.”
You know what? I think we should flip it around. David Plouffe’s kind should be destroyed thoroughly and their kind must not rise again.
What is Plouffe’s kind? I suppose it depends on who’s talking and what they are thinking of in particular. Well, at the moment it’s me talking and I am thinking of the sort of maggot who is attracted to politics not to better his world but rather so that he can wield power over others, or line their pockets with “free” money. Often these people end up as what Ayn Rand called “pull peddlers,” receiving money in exchange for using their connections to do favors.
This type is parasitic. Utterly parasitic. And they should be destroyed thoroughly and not allowed to rise again.
The bad news is we will never eradicate them. Useless turds who can’t do anything productive will always be with us. As will the outright sociopaths.
Of course they find Trump to be their enemy. And of course they find us to be their enemy. If we won’t simply lie down and let our “betters” have their way with us, we’re a problem, we’re something to be got rid of. And of late, we haven’t lain down without a protest, as we are “supposed” to do. Dang uppity Garbage Deplorables! We don’t know our place!!!
The good news is we can provide far fewer niches for these parasites. The niches come into being when something that people formerly did of their own free will is taken over by the government; then every aspect of that activity becomes a political football.
Take for instance education. Since the government runs it, if you don’t like what’s being done, you have to form a political movement and try to work your way around the maggots embedded in the bureaucracy. If education were private, then if you didn’t like what they were doing to your child, you’d take your money and your child elsewhere. And people who didn’t even have school-age children presently would have no voice–and not have to pay money. Making it a government “thing” turned it into a political thing, and the maggots began to swarm.
So we wreck them by seriously cutting government and giving them fewer places to exist. Among all of the other benefits, the body politic would have fewer sociopaths and parasites in it.
People like Plouffe are the same type, but they are the full-on political hacks who set policy, rather than implement it. They’re just as bad if not worse; they help government grow, and steer it into serving its own ends, rather than those of the people it is supposed to be serving.
The Deep State is nothing more than a government that serves its own ends.
And we have had enough of this.
They must be destroyed thoroughly, and their kind must not rise again.
This election wasn’t the end, it was the beginning. There are millions of these malignancies in this country and we’ve just defeated two of them. Keep pushing. Now we can go after them wholesale.
It’s our turn.
Our turn.
Our turn.
OUR TURN!
You stole the 2020 election. You’ve mocked and ridiculed and put people in prison and broken people’s lives because you said this thing was stolen. This entire phony thing is getting swept out. Biden’s getting swept out. Kamala Harris is getting swept out. MSNBC is getting swept out. The Justice Department is getting swept out. The FBI is getting swept out. You people suck, okay?! And now you’re going to pay the price for trying to destroy this country.
And I’m going to tell you, we’re going to get to the bottom of where the 600,000 votes [are]. You manufactured them to steal this election from President Trump in 2020. And think what this country would be if we hadn’t gone through the last four years of your madness, okay? You don’t deserve any respect, you don’t deserve any empathy, and you don’t deserve any pity.
And if anybody gives it to you, it’s Donald J. Trump, because he’s got a big heart and he’s a good man. A good man that you’re still gonna try to put in prison on the 26th of this month. This is how much you people suck. Okay? You’ve destroyed his business thing. And he came back.
He came back in the greatest show of political courage, I think, in world history. Like, [Roman statesman] Cincinnatus coming back from the plough [returning to politics to rescue the Roman Republic]. He’s the American Cincinnatus. And what he has done is a profile in courage. We’ve had his back. But I got to tell you, he may be empathetic. He may have a kind heart. He may be a good man. But we’re not. Okay? And you deserve, as Natalie Winters says, not retribution, justice. But you deserve what we call rough Roman justice, and we’re prepared to give it to you.
Steve Bannon, on election night
OUR TURN!!
OUR TURN!!!
OUR TURN!!!
OUR TURN!!!
January 6 Tapes?
Paging Speaker Johnson…this is your conscience calling you out on broken promises.
For all your high talk about your Christian moral background…you’re looking less and less like you have any kind of moral background.
If You are a Patriot and Don’t Loathe RINOs…
Let’s talk about RINOs, and why they are the lowest form of life in politics.
Many patriots have been involved with politics, often at the grassroots, for decades. We’ve fought, and fought, and fought and won the occasional illusory small victory.
Yet we can’t seem to win the war, even when we have BIG electoral wins.
I am reminded of something. The original Star Trek had an episode titled Day of the Dove. It was one of the better episodes from the third season, but any fan of the original series will tell you that’s a very low bar. Still, it seems to get some respect; at a time when there were about 700 episodes of Star Trek in its various incarnations out there, it was voted 99th best out of the top 100.
In sum, the plot is that an alien entity has arranged for 39 Enterprise crew, and 39 Klingons, to fight each other endlessly with swords and other muscle-powered weapons. The entity lives off of hostile emotions, you see and it wants a captive food source. (The other 400 or so Enterprise crew are trapped below decks and unable to help.) Each side has its emotions played and amplified by the alien entity; one Enterprise junior officer has false memories implanted of a brother who was killed by Klingons. The brother didn’t even exist.
Even people killed in a sword fight miraculously heal so they can go do it again.
The second best line of the episode is when Kang, the Klingon captain, notes that though they have won quite a number of small victories including capturing Engineering, can’t seem to actually finally defeat the Enterprise crew. He growls, “What power is it that feeds our battle yet starves our victory?*”
Indeed. He may have been the bad guy, but his situation should sound familiar.
We are a majority in this country. We have a powerful political party in our corner. There is endless wrangling.
And yet,
What power is it that feeds our battle yet starves our victory?
In our case, that power is the RINOs in our midst. They specialize in caving when on the verge of victory. Think of Obamacare’s repeal failing…by one Republican vote. Think of the way we can never seem to get spending under control (and now our entire tax revenue goes to pay interest on the debt; anything the government actually does now is with borrowed money).
We have a party…that refuses to do what we want it to do, and that refusal is institutionalized. If you’ve been involved with GOP politics, but haven’t seen this, it’s because you refuse to see it. Or because you are part of the problem yourself. (If so, kindly gargle some red fuming nitric acid to clear the taste of shit out of your mouth, and let those not part of the problem alone so they can read this.)
We fight to elect people, who then take a dive when in office. But it’s not just the politicians in office, it’s the people behind the scenes, the leaders of the national, state and county branches of the party. Their job is to ensure that real patriots never get onto the general election ballot. They’re allowed a few failures…who can then become token conservatives who will somehow never manage to win (Jordan), or can be compromised outright (Lauren Boebert?).
That way it doesn’t actually matter who has a congressional majority. I remember my excitement when the GOP took the Senate in 1980. But all that did was empower a bunch of “moderate” puddles of dog vomit like…well for whatever reason forty years later the most memorable name is Pete Domenici. And a couple of dozen other “moderates” who simply had no interest in doing what grassroots people in their party–those same grassroots people who had worked so hard to elect them–wanted them to do.
Oh, they’ll put up a semblance of a fight…but never win. And they love it when we fight the Dems instead of fighting them. Just like that alien entity, whose motto surely was “Let’s you and him fight. It’ll be delicious!”
If you think about it, your entire political involvement has come to nothing because of these walking malignant tumors.
That should make you good and mad.
The twenty five who blocked Jordan, and the hundred people who took that opportunity to stab Jordan in the back in the secret ballot should make you good and mad.
I’ll close this with another example of RINO backstabbing, an infuriating one close to home.
In my county, the GOP chair is not a RINO. She got elected when the grassroots had had enough of the RINOs. Unfortunately the state organization is full of RINOs, and the ousted county RINOs have been trying to form a new “Republican Party” and get the state GOP to recognize them as the affiliate. I’m honestly amazed it hasn’t happened yet.
In other words those shitstains won’t just leave when they get booted out; they’ll try to destroy what they left behind. It’s an indication that they know we know how important that behind-the-scenes party power is.
So they must be destroyed. That’s the only way they’ll ever stop.
We cannot win until the leeches “on our side” get destroyed.
What power is it that feeds our battle yet starves our victory?*
We know it. What is going to be done about it?
*NOTE: The original line was actually “What power is it that supports our battle yet starves our victory.” I had mis-remembered it as feeds. When I checked it, it sure enough was “supports” and that’s what I originally quoted. On further reflection, though, I realized my memory was actually an improvement over the reality, because feeds is a perfect contrast with starves. I changed it partway through the day this originally posted, but now (since this is a re-run) it gets rendered this way from the start.
If one must do things wrong, one should do them wrong…right.
RINOs an Endangered Species? If Only!
According to Wikipoo, et. al., the Northern White Rhinoceros (Ceratotherium simum cottoni) is a critically endangered species. Apparently two females live on a wildlife preserve in Sudan, and no males are known to be alive. So basically, this species is dead as soon as the females die of old age. Presently they are watched over by armed guards 24/7.
Biologists have been trying to cross them with the other subspecies, Southern White Rhinoceroses (Rhinoceri?) without success; and some genetic analyses suggest that perhaps they aren’t two subspecies at all, but two distinct species, which would make the whole project a lot more difficult.
I should hope if the American RINO (Parasitus rectum pseudoconservativum) is ever this endangered, there will be heroic efforts not to save the species, but rather to push the remainder off a cliff. Onto punji sticks. With feces smeared on them. Failing that a good bath in red fuming nitric acid will do.
But I’m not done ranting about RINOs.
The RINOs (if they are capable of any introspection whatsoever) probably wonder why they constantly have to deal with “populist” eruptions like the Trump-led MAGA movement. That would be because the RINOs stand for absolutely nothing except for going along to get along. That allows the Left to drive the culture and politics.
I well remember 1989-1990 in my state when the RINO establishment started preaching the message that a conservative simply couldn’t win in Colorado. Never mind the fact that Reagan had won the state TWICE (in 1984 bringing in a veto-proof state house and senate with him) and GHWB had won after (falsely!) assuring everyone that a vote for him was a vote for Reagan’s third term.
This is how the RINOs function. They push, push, push the line that only a “moderate” can get elected. Stomp them when they pull that shit. Tell everyone in ear shot that that’s exactly what the Left wants you to think, and oh-by-the-way-Mister-RINO if you’re in this party selling the same message as the Left…well, whythefuckexactly are you in this party, you lying piece of rancid weasel shit?
Justice
It says “Justice” on the picture.
And I’m sure someone will post the standard joke about what the fish thinks about the situation.
But what is it?
Here’s a take, from a different context: It’s about how you do justice, not the justice that must be done to our massively corrupt government and media. You must properly identify the nature of a person, before you can do him justice.
Ayn Rand, On Justice (speaking through her character John Galt, in Atlas Shrugged):
Justice is the recognition of the fact that you cannot fake the character of men as you cannot fake the character of nature, that you must judge all men as conscientiously as you judge inanimate objects, with the same respect for truth, with the same incorruptible vision, by as pure and as rational a process of identification—that every man must be judged for what he is and treated accordingly, that just as you do not pay a higher price for a rusty chunk of scrap than for a piece of shining metal, so you do not value a rotter above a hero—that your moral appraisal is the coin paying men for their virtues or vices, and this payment demands of you as scrupulous an honor as you bring to financial transactions—that to withhold your contempt from men’s vices is an act of moral counterfeiting, and to withhold your admiration from their virtues is an act of moral embezzlement—that to place any other concern higher than justice is to devaluate your moral currency and defraud the good in favor of the evil, since only the good can lose by a default of justice and only the evil can profit—and that the bottom of the pit at the end of that road, the act of moral bankruptcy, is to punish men for their virtues and reward them for their vices, that that is the collapse to full depravity, the Black Mass of the worship of death, the dedication of your consciousness to the destruction of existence.
Ayn Rand identified seven virtues, chief among them rationality. The other six, including justice, she considered subsidiary because they are essentially different aspects and applications of rationality.
I’m sure enough of this that I put my money where my mouth is.
The prior election must be acknowledged as fraudulent, and steps must be taken to prosecute the fraudsters and restore integrity to the system. (This doesn’t necessarily include deposing Joe and Hoe and putting Trump where he belongs, but it would certainly be a lot easier to fix our broken electoral system with the right people in charge.)
Nothing else matters at this point. Talking about trying again in 2024 or 2026 is pointless otherwise. Which is not to say one must never talk about this, but rather that one must account for this in ones planning; if fixing the fraud in the system is not part of the plan, you have no plan.
This will necessarily be piecemeal, state by state, which is why I am encouraged by those states working to change their laws to alleviate the fraud both via computer and via bogus voters. If enough states do that we might end up with a working majority in Congress and that would be something Trump never really had.
Martin Luther King
When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice
President Donald Trump, 20 January 2017 (The “Dark” Inauguration Speech).
[NOTE: Yes, technically this is something I should delete since it’s not January 18th any more and it is dated, but I decided to give it one more run, because some things said here don’t depend on what’s showing on the page-a-day calendar.]
….But I’ll still say something about MLK. He was a decidedly mixed individual. As are we all. But I think he, and many others of his time, did something important and unpleasant; he (and those others) forced a recognition that even after the Civil War we were being hypocritical on the subject of equality under the law. Those people who descended from those who (shall we say) involuntarily migrated to what is now the United States were still getting the shitty end of the stick in many parts of this country, as a matter of law.
He was one hundred percent correct on that.
Unfortunately his successors have turned the point full circle and want a leg up from the law, supposedly to make up for the past mistreatment, but that can only lead to an endless round of back and forth. There are some signs that MLK himself had he not been killed (he would be turning 96 this year were he still alive), would have been right alongside the race baiters (which include some who were with him), other signs that he wouldn’t have.
But just as Thomas Jefferson penned these words, in spite of owning slaves, the words that eventually shamed us into abolishing the “peculiar institution”:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…
I’ll go with what Martin Luther King said…not all that far from where the Inauguration will take place:
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
Emphasis mine. Judge people by the content of their character.
That is as it should be.
I see that at Trump rallies. His words about opening hearts to patriotism were true.
I see nothing but reverse racism on the Left. To them the world is defined by what one group does to another, some group must be on top shitting on everyone else. And it shows. There’s a false dichotomy in their thinking. Either white shits on black, or black shits on white. The way to deal with this false dichotomy, though, is not to gin up a third “group” to make it a trichotomy, or a fourth group to make it, what, a tetrachotomy? quadrichotomy? Is either of those actually a word? Gee maybe we can have a different group on top every week of the year at least until some jackass makes up a 53rd group! (Let’s leave aside the one or two day remainder you get from dividing 365(or 6) by 7. These are leftists studying critical race theory, not mathematicians.)
How about we do something different? How about we work towards a system where the law shits on NO ONE except those who violate the rights of others?
Lawyer Appeasement Section
OK now for the fine print.
This is the WQTH Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Poltical correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines, here, with an addendum on 20191110.
We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.
And remember Wheatie’s Rules:
1. No food fights 2. No running with scissors. 3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone. 4. Zeroth rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government get your guns. 5. Rule one of gun safety: The gun is always loaded. 5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty. 6. Rule two of gun safety: Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy. 7. Rule three: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. 8. Rule the fourth: Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
Gold went up bigly, including on Friday. Silver was doing very well but dropped 29 cents on Friday. Nevertheless it too is up this week, enough to pull the Gold:Silver ratio down a bit So silver might finally be waking up.
And of course the FRNSI is up, and is now threatening the 150 mark.
*The SteveInCO Federal Reserve Note Suckage Index (FRNSI) is a measure of how much the dollar has inflated. It’s the ratio of the current price of gold, to the number of dollars an ounce of fine gold made up when the dollar was defined as 25.8 grains of 0.900 gold. That worked out to an ounce being $20.67+71/387 of a cent. (Note gold wasn’t worth this much back then, thus much gold was $20.67 71/387ths. It’s a subtle distinction. One ounce of gold wasn’t worth $20.67 back then, it was $20.67.) Once this ratio is computed, 1 is subtracted from it so that the number is zero when the dollar is at its proper value, indicating zero suckage.
The Final Experiment
Jeran, formerly one of the biggest figures in the Flat Earth movement, is now talking against it.
His favorite bit of evidence that there is indeed curvature is filming SpaceX launches from a great distance, and noting that the rocket ascent is not visible until well over a minute after launch. (He also captures a live feed from the launch facility, so he knows when the launch actually happened.) He’ll then continue filming for at least that long again, measure how far the rocket is above the horizon, and state that it must have been that far below the horizon at launch. At least that was what he was saying the last time I checked in on his channel (he has a livestream every Friday evening).
The problem is that’s not quite right. This is a good piece of evidence for earth curvature, but he’s overstating the effect. He is (or was) making a mistaken assumption. He’s failing to account for the fact that the rocket is accelerating.
If something starts accelerating at a constant rate from a stationary state, in the first interval, call it t, it will cover a certain distance. In the following interval of the same length, from t to 2t, it will cover three times the distance it covered in the first interval, not the same distance as Jeran is (or was) assuming.
The general formula for where an object will be at time t under constant acceleration is (assuming one dimensional motion, like on a railroad track):
d = 1/2 at2 + vit + di
The vi and di are the initial speed and position.
Let’s say it’s not accelerating at all, but is moving at (say) 30 m/s at the initial time, and started 10 meters away from wherever your reference zero is. That formula becomes:
d = 30t + 10.
So after one second, you’re 40 meters from the start, after two seconds, you’re 70 meters from the start, and so on. Makes sense.
In the case of the rocket, it’s going straight up at least initially, and is stationary, initially. Measuring altitude from the launch pad makes your initial position zero also, and so you have:
d = 1/2 at2
We don’t know a, but we’re assuming (for now) that it does not change.
We also will just measure t in “intervals”
So after one interval:
d = 1/2 at2 d = 1/2 a(1)2 d = 1/2 a
After two intervals:
d = 1/2 at2 d = 1/2 a(2)2 d = 1/2 ax4 d = 2 a
Note that the second distance is four times as great as the first (and includes that first distance), so during the second interval it traveled 3 times further than it did in the first interval.
I tried to find Jeran’s email address to point this out, but you have to subscribe to his channel to be able to see it.
It’s possibly even more skewed than this, though, because it’s quite possible that the rocket’s acceleration is itself increasing. It has a particular thrust, but is becoming lighter as it burns fuel. The same force acting on a decreasing mass will cause an increasing acceleration. I have no idea whether SpaceX is throttling the rocket back or not to counter this; but these are unmanned launches so there’s no particular reason to do so, unless there’s some reason introduced by the rocket being in the atmosphere in the early phases of the launch.
The Flerfer response to this demo by Jeran is to insist that there must be a cloudbank between him and the launches, blocking his view for the first part of the trajectory. If so this is an amazingly consistent cloudbank that only (and always) appears for night launches.
Some Go-Backs
I’ve been “researching” a bit. (I put “research” in quotes because I’m watching YouTube videos.) And I’ve learned something that slightly changes what I said last week.
Zircon crystals apparently melt at a staggering 2500 C. I knew that they had a high melting point but this is insane.
A zircon crystal, once formed, is unlikely to be melted again. As such even when found in (say) a granite which formed at a mere 1000 C or so, it’s probably a left over zircon, just like it would be if it were found in a sedimentary rock. It’s what they call a xenolith.
Thus when trying to date an igneous rock, you generally don’t want to use the zircons, which means you will not want to do uranium-lead dating, at least not in the way I described. Geologists know this, by the way, so they don’t do this unless they actually want to date the zircon crystal itself (which they wanted to do for those rocks from the Jack Hills, as well as similar formations elsewhere around the world).
This does not deter creationists from doing it though, submitting zircons as well as other bits of the same rock. They then point to the difference of ages that (predictably) results and complain that radioisotopic dating doesn’t work.
It works fine if used properly; this is sabotage.
Bonus
Two (long!) videos on Andrew Snelling, Answers in Genesis’s pet lying bastard of a geologist. They are done by someone working under the nom de video (if that’s a term) Dapper Dinosaur. Evidently he wishes to remain anonymous. I can understand that. Both are videos where he is reacting to talks given by Snelling. The first from three years ago
Probably the biggest single whopper here (though he does it multiple times) is talking about chalk beds and limestone as flood deposits. Nope, they only form in calm waters (never under flood conditions) and much too slowly, like a thousand years per centimeter, even under ideal conditions. Dapper Dinosaur says, near the end (1:50:25), “Let’s be clear here. This talk alone would be enough to get Andrew Snelling expelled from any academic institution of any repute. Or, if he had tenure, to ensure that he was never taken seriously again. And to be fair, no scientists do take him seriously. Just Young Earth larpers.”
A newer one, from three months ago. In both cases Dapper Dinosaur took a number of shorter videos had done and combined them.
I’ve yet to find a single “professional” young earth creationist who did not, on closer inspection, turn out to be a liar or at best a specialist in some other topic who might just not know what he’s talking about with whatever topic he happens to be discussing right now.
Joe Biden never won. This is our Real President – 45, 46, 47.
AND our beautiful REALFLOTUS.
This Stormwatch Monday Open Thread remains open – VERY OPEN – a place for everybody to post whatever they feel they would like to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA/KAG/KMAG world (with KMAG being a bit of both).
Our various sister sites, listed in the Blogroll in the sidebar
Our beloved country is under Occupation by hostile forces.
Daily outrage and epic phuckery abound.
We can give in to despair…or we can be defiant and fight back in any way that we can.
Joe Biden didn’t win.
And we will keep saying Joe Biden didn’t win until we get His Fraudulency out of our White House.
Wolfie’s Wheatie’s Word of the Week:
hauberk
noun
long chain-mail coat
long mail shirt
long tunic made of chain mail
coat of mail; especially, the long coat of mail of the European Middle Ages, as contrasted with the habergeon, which is shorter and sometimes sleeveless
Used in a sentence
By the 10th century, the hauberk was common among well-armored warriors, often paired with a helmet.
Shown in a picture
Featured in a video, but not by name
MUSIC!
Listen to some traditional folk music while watching a woke-looking modern Renaissance festival type gal make decorative chain mail!
THE STUFF
So what if space was actually a bit like chain mail? Sabine talks about it!
So have we really found the point where math turns into physics?
What is it that feeds our battle, yet starves our victory?
January 6 Tapes?
Where are the tapes? Anyone, Anyone? Bueller? Johnson??
Paging Speaker Johnson…this is your conscience calling you out on broken promises.
Evading Reality
Many things the Left believes are simply not true. Right now the focus is on the size and scope of our government, and the many many billions of dollars the government has been spending on no-one-knew-what. None of that money is going to a key role of government. Which, after all, has the sole purpose of protecting rights.
And if you, Leftist Lurker, want to dismiss this as dead white cis-male logic…well, you can call it what you want, but then please just go fuck off. No one here buys that bullshit–logic is logic and facts are facts regardless of skin color–and if you gave it a moment’s rational thought, you wouldn’t either. Of course your worthless education never included being able to actually reason–or detect problems with false reasoning–so I don’t imagine you’ll actually wake up as opposed to being woke.
As Ayn Rand would sometimes point out: Yes, you are free to evade reality. What you cannot do is evade the consequences of evading reality. Or to put it concretely: You can ignore the Mack truck bearing down on you as you play in the middle of the street, you won’t be able to ignore the consequences of ignoring the Mack truck.
And Ayn Rand also pointed out that existence (i.e., the sum total of everything that exists) precedes consciousness–our consciousnesses are a part of existence, not outside of it–therefore reality cannot be a “social construct” as so many of you fucked-up-in-the-head people seem to think.
So much for Leftist douchebag lurkers. For the rest of you, the regular readers and those lurkers who understand such things, well here we go for another week of WINNING against the Deep State.
I confess that the novelty has not worn off.
Justice Must Be Done.
The prior election must be acknowledged as fraudulent, and steps must be taken to prosecute the fraudsters and restore integrity to the system.
Yes, we won this time around. Not only did we win, we got to KEEP that win instead of having it stolen from us.
But no one should imagine that that’s the end of electoral fraud. Much work needs to be done to ensure it doesn’t just happen again next time around. And incidentally to rescue those states currently in the grips of self-perpetuating fraud, where the people who stole the last election, make sure it’s easier to steal the next one.
This issue, though it’s not front-and-center right now, is not going away, and if we ignore it, we’ll pay the price. See the article above about the consequences of evading reality.
Lawyer Appeasement Section
OK now for the fine print.
This is the WQTH Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Poltical correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines, here, with an addendum on 20191110.
We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.
And remember Wheatie’s Rules:
1. No food fights 2. No running with scissors. 3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone. 4. Zeroth rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government get your guns. 5. Rule one of gun safety: The gun is always loaded. 5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty. 6. Rule two of gun safety: Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy. 7. Rule three: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. 8. Rule the fourth: Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
Gold was actually up in the 3040s Wednesday and Thursday but dropped on Friday, (which has been a common pattern for years). Platinum went nowhere. Silver is actually down. My understanding is that gold’s rise has been driven by central bank purchases. Since they don’t bother with silver, that explains why silver is basically tango uniform. The gold:silver ratio has been above 100 before, and I would be surprised if it doesn’t get there again soon.
*The SteveInCO Federal Reserve Note Suckage Index (FRNSI) is a measure of how much the dollar has inflated. It’s the ratio of the current price of gold, to the number of dollars an ounce of fine gold made up when the dollar was defined as 25.8 grains of 0.900 gold. That worked out to an ounce being $20.67+71/387 of a cent. (Note gold wasn’t worth this much back then, thus much gold was $20.67 71/387ths. It’s a subtle distinction. One ounce of gold wasn’t worth $20.67 back then, it was $20.67.) Once this ratio is computed, 1 is subtracted from it so that the number is zero when the dollar is at its proper value, indicating zero suckage.
The Math Behind Radiometric Dating
This is going to be a bit brutal for those who are math phobic. For the rest it will reward careful attention.
Radiometric dating involves, at the very least, measuring the quantities of parent isotopes and daughter isotopes. In some situations it gets more complicated than that, and to be honest those situations are actually the usual ones.
Introducing Uranium-Lead Dating
So let’s take an actual case as an example, a method called uranium-lead dating, because the parent isotope is uranium, and the daughter isotope is lead. Actually there are two sets of parent-daughter isotopes in this case: uranium-238 with daughter isotope lead-206, and uranium-235 to lead-207. (Check: The differences between the mass numbers must be a multiple of 4, because a change of 4 is the effect alpha decay will have. And yes it looks like I got the right numbers. I saw a video recently that swapped the lead isotope numbers; an easy mistake to make.) This makes it a favorite because you can do two datings with one sample.
For simplicity we will start by considering only the uranium-238 to lead-206 pairing. Most dating methods use an isotope that decays directly into the daughter product. U-238 does not do this. It decays into thorium-234 by alpha decay, then there are a chain of thirteen more decays (there are alternate paths, but all are thirteen steps long, not including that first alpha decay) for total of fourteen steps before it gets to lead-206.
[Check this one too. The difference in mass numbers is 238-206=32; dividing by four that is eight alpha decays. But eight alpha decays reduces the number of protons by sixteen, so if that’s all that happened uranium-238 would become osmium-206. (Uranium is element 92; 92-16=76; 76 is osmium.) In order to actually end up with lead (82), we need to, somewhere along the way, get six additional protons; we do that with negative beta decay (β–) which turns a neutron into a proton. So six beta decays are needed. Eight alpha decays + six negative beta decays = 14 total decays.]
Is this huge number of decays a problem? In principle it could be, but in this case it’s not. The initial uranium-238 to thorium-234 decay is very slow, with a half life of 4,468,000,000 years. Compared to this the others are practically instantaneous, with uranium-234 to thorium-230 requiring 245,000 years and thorium-230 to radium-226 requiring 75,400 years. Radium-226 to radon-222 has a half life of 1600 years. All of the other decays happen in less than a year and some take less than a second. So, basically, once a uranium-238 atom cuts loose and spits out an alpha particle, it’s going to be a lead-206 atom in less than a couple of million years, tops; which in comparison to the half life of uranium-238 (4,468 million years) is negligible.
Half Lives and the Radioactive Decay Equation
So, let me remind you about half lives. This is the amount of time it takes for half of the atoms in the sample to decay. It’s a little tricky wrapping one’s head around this at first. Surely, if half of the atoms are gone in 4,468 million years, the other half ought to be gone in another 4,468 million years. But it doesn’t work that way.
Each atom is independent of the others, and any given U-238 atom has a totally random 50 percent chance of going “kablooey” sometime within the next 4,468 million years. It could be right now while you’re watching it, or it could be 4,467.999 million years from now. If it doesn’t happen between now and then, guess what? You are still looking at an atom that has a 50 percent chance of going “kablooey” in the next 4,468 million years. The past history doesn’t matter. If the atom is 100,000 million years old already, versus created last year, it still has the same changes of blowing up in the same period of time.
Go to multiple atoms in a sample; billions, trillions or quadrillions of them [a one-gram sample of uranium-238 has 2.53 sextillion (or 2.53 trillion billion) atoms in it]. Since each individual atom has a 50 percent chance of blowing up in the next 4,468 million years, half of them, you don’t know which ones in advance, but half of them will do so. OK, so let’s say your very distant descendant takes your one gram sample and separates out all of the lead and intermediate decay products (the other things on the chain), and he has half a gram of uranium-238. His past does not matter; he has a half-gram sample of uranium-238 and half of it will decay in the next 4,468 million years, leaving his distant descendant with a quarter of a gram of uranium. (And maybe by that time an honest Leftist will have been born.)
The following GIF is a simulation of radioactive decay, with four samples each of four and four hundred atoms. The number at the top is the number of elapsed half lives. (It runs a bit fast unfortunately, so watch closely.)
Another way to talk about it is to say that, for a given isotope, the number of decaying atoms in some time interval is proportional to the current number of atoms.
In fact since the decaying atoms reduce the size of the sample, the number of decays is the rate of change of the size of the sample. Twice as many decays? Twice as fast a reduction.
In order to truly understand radiometric dating we have to understand this, and be able to express it mathematically. And I want you to truly understand it.
Intense Math Alert! Go to the bolded paragraph below to skip this.
Expressing this semi-mathematically, using ∝ for “is proportional to”:
(Number of decays in a specified time interval) ∝ (Current size of sample)
Or:
(rate of change of the sample size) ∝ (Current size of sample)
Or a bit more formally, with N(t) being the number of atoms in the sample at time t, expressed in calculus notation:
−dN/dt ∝ N
(The negative sign is because the change is in the downward direction, yet we will want to use a positive constant when we introduce it shortly.)
Or we can make it an equation by creating a proportionality constant, λ, (Greek lower-case lambda); in this case it’s called the decay constant.
−dN/dt = λN
And rearrange just a bit:
dN/N = −λdt
Welcome to the world of differential equations. This one is easy to solve, since the only way a function can be its own derivative is if the function is et, and if you want a function to be its own derivative but multiplied by some number is for the function to be something like ekt., in which case the derivative will be ket. So taking advantage of this fact, we get:
Key Equation: N(t) = N0e−λt
Where N0 is the size of the sample at some particular time, and N(t) is the size of the sample at some earlier or later time, t.
This concerns the so-called parent nuclide. The daughter product increases, of course. What’s the formula for that? It’s convenient that the number of atoms does not change; even if fewer and fewer of them are the parent isotope. In other words, the total number of atoms, parent + daughter, is always N0 no matter how much (or how little) decay has happened. That means that to get the number of daughter atoms, you can simply subtract the number of parent atoms from the original number of parent atoms. I’m using subscripts p and d here to indicate number of parent and daughter atoms
Nd(t) = N0 − Np(t)
Substituting in the Key Equation for Np:
Nd(t) = N0 − N0e−λt
But this just begs to be simplified a bit:
Nd(t) = N0(1 − e−λt)
Earlier I was talking in terms of half lives, but we don’t see that here; we see this funky lambda constant instead. Can we get to a formula that uses half lives?
Yes but before we proceed I should say something about λ. We’re eventually going to want to put an actual numerical value on it, but it’s important to note that this is a number that applies to some given time interval. A second, a year, a million years. This number is actually the fraction of the sample that decays in whatever time interval you choose. So if a trillionth of the sample decays in one second, λ is one trillionth (0.000000000001), but to express that in years, you need to multiply it by 60 × 60 × 24 × 365.25, and if you want it to express it for millions of years, you have to multiply it again by another million. In this case we’re dealing with geology and our λ values will be set for million-year units.
The first step is to simply invert λ, defining a new constant τ:
τ = 1/λ
This gives you the average lifetime for an atom of the parent isotope, in whatever unit (seconds, years, millions of years, whatever) that you used for λ.
Note that this is not the same as half life. Half life is the time it takes for half of the atoms to go kablooey, but that’s not the average time it will take for one to do so. Some atoms ( one in 1024) will survive ten half lives, and they pull the average up. But it’s easy to get to the half life, t1/2 from here–multiply by the natural log of 2 (about 0.693):
t1/2 = τ ln(2) = ln(2) / λ
The reverse process:
λ = ln(2) / t1/2
And it turns out that there’s a version of the Key Equation with the half life…actually two versions that are equivalent to each other.
Cumbersome Half Life Key Equation: N(t) = N0e−ln(2)t/t1/2
This is ugly so it gets simplified as follows:
Simple Half Life Key Equation: N(t) = N0 2-(t/t1/2)
This one is intuitive in terms of half lives. Raise 1/2 to the power of the number of half lives that have elapsed to get the fraction of atoms remaining, then multiply by the original number. Or equivalently raise 2 to the negative power of the number of half lives.
So do we prefer working with λ or with t1/2? Scientific calculators come with an ex key; they never come with a 2x key–which forces us to work with that cumbersome formula above if we want to use half lives. (Honestly I’d write a program if it were a programmable calculator: store the half life in memory, and input the time, let the program do all the steps in the Cumbersome equation.) On the other hand I am having a very difficult time finding a table of isotope decay rates; half lives are easy to find.
END OF INTENSE MATH but be aware there will be a lot of applying the equations from here on out. That’s basically arithmetic, though, not differential equations.
For those of you rejoining us here, I’m going to repeat the formulas and definitions:
Decay Rate Key Equation: N(t) = N0e−λt
Cumbersome Half Life Key Equation: N(t) = N0e−ln(2)t/t1/2
Simple Half Life Key Equation: N(t) = N0 2-(t/t1/2)
N(t) is the number of atoms of the parent isotope (the one that’s decaying away) at any given time t. N0 is the original number of atoms of the parent isotope.
t1/2 is the half life. λ is the decay constant, the fraction of the sample that decays in some specified time (seconds, or millions of years, as appropriate). Dividing 1 by λ gives τ, the average lifetime of an atom in the sample.
I rarely see λ used. But for uranium-238 it’s: 4.916 x 10-18 (when working in seconds) and 1.551 x 10-10 (when working in years). If you use the latter number you need to supply t in years, not seconds–which, let’s face it, is more likely what you want to do anyway. In fact, this is geology (or have you forgotten?): You probably want millions of years, in which case λ for uranium-238 is 1.551 x 10-4.
In fact, let me supply the numbers for U-235, U-238, and thorium-232, since we’re going to be mentioning them at some point below.
(I here took the liberty of using “engineering” numbers rather than strict scientific notation (where the power is set so only one number is left of the decimal point) so that you could compare the decay rates more readily. The engineering mode uses powers that are multiples of three so it’s easy to write out a metric prefix, e.g, 1.32 × 104 watts (scientific notation) becomes 13.2 × 103 watts (engineering notation) or 13.2 kW (very readily read off the engineering notation).)
OK, there is some more math but at least I’m not slinging differential equations any more:
Determining Age (The Simple, Ideal Case)
Since we are dating a sample rather than predicting how much will be left after some time, these formulas are backwards. Instead of telling us how much is left after a known time has elapsed, we expect to know how much is left, and want to know how much time it took to get to that point.
Rearranging the Decay Rate Key Equation we get:
t = ln(N/N0) / –λ
or, getting rid of the minus sign by taking the natural log of the reciprocal instead:
The Dating Equation: t = ln(N0/N)/λ.
(“ln” is the natural log; the logarithm to the base e.)
OK so how do we apply this?
In principle, we can analyze some rock to determine how much U-235, Pb-207, U-238, Pb-206, and for bonus, Th-232 and Pb-208 is in it. We will want to know numbers of atoms–or at least the ratio of the number of atoms, not weight, but it’s easy enough to convert. We can then use the last formula above three times, remembering that (for the U-235 case) N0 is actually the sum of the U-235+Pb-207 numbers, whereas N is just the U-235 count. So you have two (or three, if you are checking thorium as well) pairs of numbers; run the calculation with each one. You now have three answers; if they are all the same, you’re in business.
Here’s an example: A rock that happens to be 704 million years old. You don’t know this (real science doesn’t have the answers in the back of the book), but you want to, so you take a tiny sample. For now we’ll assume no pre-existing daughter nuclides, no losses of any atoms over time from the sample, and no contamination of the sample. You put that sample into a mass spectrometer, which vaporizes the sample, ionizes the atoms, and sends them past a magnet at high speed. The atoms, being charged, will follow curved paths past the magnet. Heavier atoms will be bent less by the magnet. We put a detector downstream and it notes how many atoms hit where an atom of mass 206 should strike. Also for 207, 208, 232, 235, and 238.
What does our scientist see? It so happens I picked that number for a reason; it’s the half life of U-235. So our scientist will see equal numbers of U-235 and Pb-207, say 5 million of each. It doesn’t matter, it’s the ratio between the two that matters, and in this case it’s 1:1. That will probably make him smile because he won’t even have to pull out his calculator for that one–he will already know the answer. But he decides to check that, so what about U-238 and Pb-206? He will see 11.54 atoms of Pb-206 for every hundred atoms of U-238. Say, 1 billlion atoms of U-238 and 115.4 million atoms of Pb-206 But in order to use the formula above, he needs N0/N, the ratio of the remaining parent atoms (1 billion) divided by the total number of atoms involved in this (parent + daughter), to the number of remaining atoms. So what he wants is (1 billion + 115.4 million)/1 billion = 1,115,400,000/1,000,000,000 = 1.0577. When he plugs that into the dating equation t = ln(N0/N)/λ, being careful to use the value of λ for U-238, he gets 703.98 million years. Now he’s really happy because his numbers match. If he checks Th-232/Pb-208 he’ll get (regardless of the actual amounts) 3.534 atoms of lead-208 for every hundred atoms of thorium-232. Using this, he gets N0/N of 1.0353, divides by λ for Th-232 (49.33 × 10−6), hits the ex key on his calculator…and the age comes out as 704.1 million years. Now he’s grinning ear to ear, because he took three sets of measurements, independent of each other, and got the same result every time. What could be easier? (Actually a lot of things could be easier; actually analyzing the sample in order to get those six numbers is painstaking work.)
That’s the third grade version of what is called “uranium-lead dating.”
[In the light of a joke Pat Frederick made last time, uranium-lead radiometric dating is when her father shoots you full of lead or depleted uranium because he caught you shooting his daughter full of something else. But that’s the high-school level version.]
How To Deal With Non-Ideal Cases
I said this was the third grade version. That’s because I made a bunch of assumptions for this case. I said so before, and now I am going to repeat them.
No initial daughter nuclides (in other words the rock contained no lead when it was formed).
Neither a) any lead nor b) any uranium (or thorium) leached out of the rock since it was formed, since that will mess up our ratios when we measure them.
No contamination of the sample either from natural processes or as it is collected and analyzed.
The problem is when dealing with rocks it’s never that tidy, though it can get close. We cannot simply assume that the sample started out with no daughter isotope in it. Or make any of those other assumptions, at least not without justification.
So when uranium-lead dating is done (in the lab, not in her house), it’s usually done with the mineral zircon. The chemical formula for this is ZrSiO4. It’s a silicate of zirconium, element #40. Here is an insanely nice specimen of zircon:
But hold on here. There’s no uranium in this mineral!
There’s no uranium, if it’s pure. However these crystals form in a mass of molten rock (magma), and this is Planet Earth unfiltered and unpurified. There will, therefore, almost always be impurities in it. (This is why pure white diamonds are very valuable; they have little to no impurities in them and that is a rare situation indeed.)
Zircon crystals will form in any igneous rock as it solidifies from magma. In fact, they’re practically the first thing that will form. (This is good because it’s easier for a crystal in still-liquid medium to reject impurities than it is, if almost everything surrounding it is already solidified.) They typically end up being the size of sand grains, and so any sizeable igneous rock will have a number of them in it. Zircons are also harder than quartz, with a Mohs hardness of 7.5 vs. quartz’s 7.0. (They will scratch steel and glass.) Which means they will be hard to damage, and can erode out of an igneous rock and end up incorporated in a sedimentary rock, essentially undamaged.
As it happens, if there is any uranium (either isotope, it doesn’t matter because we’re doing chemistry at the moment) in the magma, it can be incorporated in the zircon quite readily. So can thorium. The uranium atoms end up as part of the crystal, replacing some of the zirconium. But the cool thing about it, and the reason we want zircon crystals, is that lead is rejected as the crystal forms. So the innards of the new crystal will contain some uranium, and no lead whatsoever.
Furthermore, uranium won’t leach out of the zircon crystals over time.
That’s handy! And sedimentary rocks will have the crystals too, once they erode from igneous rocks. The thing to remember about the crystals in sedimentary rock is that dating those crystals will not give you the age of the sedimentary rock, but rather the age of some igneous rock that eroded, the grains from which became part of the sedimentary rock. They will put a maximum on the age of the sedimentary rock, but no minimum (maybe it formed last Tuesday).
This is a bit of a pain, because we find fossils, including index fossils, almost entirely in sedimentary rock. It’s not insurmountable, but that’s a topic for a future post. For now let’s stick to igneous rock.
If we take care to use the innards of the zircon crystal, rather than the surface, and run our lab like a clean room, we can reduce the possibility of contamination. If there is contamination in spite of all of these, we won’t get consistent answers (as we did in our example above) and can just disregard the results from that sample.
We’ve taken care of every assumption, except for 2a: We don’t know whether or not any lead leached out of the crystal after it was formed. And that does happen. Zircon crystals don’t like lead, so they’ll push it out if they have a chance, while hanging on to the uranium and thorium that’s still left.
One thing that can cause this is if the zircon is heated to over 900 C after it is formed, like happens when the rock it is part of is transformed into a metamorphic rock. Also, ironically, the uranium’s radiation can actually damage the crystal as it decays, allowing lead to leak out at lower temperatures. (And remember, every uranium-238 atom that decays emits radiation fourteen times!)
OK so how do we deal with this?
Let’s go back to our example of the 704 million year old unicorn rock that had no issues with it. Make it a rock with some number of zircon crystals, and we’ll use the crystals.
The crystals will all have different rates of lead loss, slightly different but different enough for this to work. So let’s take a specific crystal, and let’s say it has lost fifty percent of its lead.
How does a scientist use this to date the rock?
Let’s first see what he measures.
In our previous example, the scientist saw 5 million atoms each of U-235 and Pb-207. This time, though, unbeknownst to the scientist, half of the lead leaked out before the sample was collected. So what he sees instead is 5 million atoms of U-235 and 2.5 million atoms of Pb-207. It looks likeN0 is 7.5 million (not 10 million) so he does the division N0/N and comes up with 3/2 (instead of 2).
He plugs that into the Dating Equation:
t = ln(N0/N)/λ
using λ for U-235 and gets: 411.8 million years (probably rounding it to 412).
We happen to know this is wrong. He doesn’t.
Not yet, anyway.
Next, he works U-238 and Pb-206. This time he sees a billion atoms of U-238, but instead of 115.4 million atoms of Pb-206, he only sees 57.7 million. So he is dividing 1,057,700,000 by 1,000,000,000, and getting 1.0577. Plugging that into the Dating Equation with the decay constant for U-238, he gets 361.597…okay, 362 million years. Doing the same exercise with thorium (I’ll save you the gory details) yields an age of 355.1 million years, or 355 million.
These numbers are all over the freaking map. None of them are even remotely right…and this guy has been doing this sort of work for more than two weeks so he knows that this variation actually means he’s nowhere close, and he’s dealing with crystals that lost some of their lead.
What to do now?
Concordia Diagrams to the Rescue
Analyze another zircon crystal, and another. Let’s say the next one has only 40 percent loss of the lead. In that case the U-235 date is 477 million years, the U-238 date is 432 million years, and the thorium date is 425 million years.
He accumulates at least a few of these sets of data.
OK now the mathematical tool comes in. Bring out a sheet of graph paper and label the horizontal Pb-207/U-235 and the vertical Pb-206/U-238.
Before doing anything with the data collected, we have a bit of prep to do. We have to draw a line that shows the values where the two dates are in “concord” (agreement) with each other, and this will be called a “concordia diagram”
For instance, for an age of 100 million years, a perfect rock (like in my first example) will show 90.6 percent U-235 and 9.377 percent Pb-207. Dividing the two we get a ratio 0.1035. The same ideal rock would be 98.5 percent U-238 and 1.54 percent Pb-206. (We’re going to ignore the thorium for now), the ratio is 0.0156. So put a mark at 0.1035 on the horizontal and 0.0156 on the vertical. Label that mark “100.”
Do this for a bunch of different ages and you get this sort of curved line, with different points on the line labeled with different ages. It goes up to the right, but instead of being a straight line it bulges slightly upward.
Note this is a bit different from the graphs we made in Algebra 1. There, we had the independent variable along the horizontal axis, and the dependent variable on the vertical axis. This time we have two dependent variables, those two ratios, off of one independent variable (the age that would give those ratios under ideal circumstances). We are plotting the two dependent variables against each other.
(You don’t have to do all of this math every time, because the points are always the same. I would bet that it’s in tables. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was graph paper with this line pre-printed on it, though in the modern digital age that may have fallen by the wayside.)
In fact, I just used a spreadsheet to compute the values for 100, 200, 300…and so on up to 1000 million years, and plotted them. (I wasn’t able to get the spreadsheet to label the points.) In this case, 100 million years is at the lower left, and 1 billion years is at the upper right.
OK, now that you have this blank template, plot all of your measurements on it. For the first sample, there were 2.5 million atoms of Pb-207 and 5 million of U-235, so the ratio is 0.5. That’s your “x” value. And there were 57.7 million Pb-206 atoms versus 1 billion U-238 atoms, so the ratio is 0.0577. That’s your y value. Plot a point at (0.5, 0.0577)
Repeat for the other samples. These data points should lie along a straight line (if it’s not exact there are mathematical methods to find the “best fit” line). Extend it, and it will cross the curved line in two places. The upper right intersection represents the original ratios, you then can backtrack to figure out what age that point on the curved line represents. And you will get 704 million years, which is the actual age of the rock you pulled the zircon crystals from.
I can’t seem to get sample points onto the graph I just uploaded, but what I can do is show you an actual concordia diagram. This one was used to date rocks from the Klamath Mountains in Northern California. In this case as you can see the age is 461.17 +/- 31 Ma. (Spoiler: This turns out to be the middle of the Ordovician period. My example 704 million year old rock would, if real, come from the Cryogenian period.)
The upshot of this is, the concordia diagram lets you use the fact that there are two measurements to account for loss of daughter isotope, provided you can take multiple samples (with different amounts of loss) from the same rock.
What about the thorium-to-lead part? One could use Pb-208/Th-232 in a concordia diagram, instead of one of the two lead/uranium isotopes, but thorium decays more slowly so its ratios are smaller and a tiny variation in the measurement leads to a bigger variation in the date. The two uranium-lead numbers are more sensitive, so they get used instead.
There is a closely related method called Lead-Lead dating. I’ll cover that next time. Meanwhile, you’re probably wondering. What’s the oldest rock we’ve found?
Quit Holding Out On Us
The oldest “hit” found using zircons and uranium-lead dating so far is some zircon crystals taken from a rock in the Jack Hills in Western Australia, north of Perth. The crystals were found in a sedimentary rock, so the rock as a whole is younger than the zircons, which came out of an igneous rock that eroded a long time ago.
And that number came out to be: 4,404 +/- 8 million years.
Remember that this is a minimum age for the Earth. We’ll improve on it.
Here’s a picture of a Jack Hills rock:
It is believed that this rock (as a combined entity) is about 3 billion years old (that’s not a very precise number, but that’s the point; it’s hard to date sedimentary rocks), but obviously it’s made of older stuff, including those ancient zircon crystals.
I want to close by emphasizing that uranium-lead dating has been used countless times, and between that and other methods of dating I’ll be covering soon–also used countless times–we have built up a consistent notion of Earth’s age and ages for events during Earth’s “lifetime.” This isn’t a one-off that was then uncritically accepted.
Other, slightly newer zircons (4.3 billion years old) from the same area have had their oxygen atoms examined and the isotopic mix there (O-16 vs. O-17 vs. O-18, all stable) implies there was already liquid water on Earth’s surface.
And accepting these numbers isn’t a “presupposition” (as some people would claim) because the numbers are the results of a lot of evidence and scientific investigation.
If you want to dispute numbers in the millions and billions of years, you are going up against, quite literally, tons of hard evidence.
Joe Biden never won. This is our Real President – 45, 46, 47.
AND our beautiful REALFLOTUS.
This Stormwatch Monday Open Thread remains open – VERY OPEN – a place for everybody to post whatever they feel they would like to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA/KAG/KMAG world (with KMAG being a bit of both).
What is it that feeds our battle, yet starves our victory?
Do We Still Need the Kang (Mis)Quote?
I’m still using the quote about winning the battles but losing the war. It seems like this doesn’t make sense right now given that we seem to be going from triumph to triumph.
On the contrary. This is the exception that proves the rule. The quote isn’t just a lament, it’s to point out why we can never seem to win.
You see, the RINOs cannot interfere and that is why, just for once, we are actually winning. And that is just one more piece of evidence (for the willfully blind) as to what I have been saying with that quote.
It stays.
Speaker Johnson Pinging you on January 6 Tapes
Just a friendly reminder Speaker Johnson. You’re doing some good things–or at least trying in the case of the budget–but this is the most important thing out there still hanging. One initial block released with the promise of more…and?
We have American patriots being held without bail and without trial, and the tapes almost certainly contain exculpatory evidence. (And if they don’t, and we’re all just yelling in an echo chamber over here, we need to know that too. And there’s only one way to know.)
Either we have a weaponized, corrupt government or we have a lot of internet charlatans. Let’s expose whatever it is. (I’m betting it’s the corrupt weaponized government, but if I am wrong, I’d like to see proof.)
Justice Must Be Done.
The 2020 election must be acknowledged as fraudulent, and steps must be taken to prosecute the fraudsters and restore integrity to the system.
Yes this is still true in spite of 2024. Fraud must be rooted out of our system and that hasn’t changed just because the fraud wasn’t enough to stop Trump winning a second term. Fraud WILL be ramped up as soon as we stop paying attention.
Otherwise, everything ends again in 2028. Or perhaps earlier if Trump is saddled with a Left/RINO congress in 2026, via fraud.
Small Government?
Many times conservatives (real and fake) speak of “small government” being the goal.
This sounds good, and mostly is good, but it misses the essential point. The important thing here isn’t the size, but rather the purpose, of government. We could have a cheap, small tyranny. After all our government spends most of its revenue on payments to individuals and foreign aid, neither of which is part of the tyrannical apparatus trying to keep us locked down and censored. What parts of the government would be necessary for a tyranny? It’d be a lot smaller than what we have now. We could shrink the government and nevertheless find it more tyrannical than it is today.
No, what we want is a limited government, limited not in size, but rather in scope. Limited, that is, in what it’s allowed to do. Under current circumstances, such a government would also be much smaller, but that’s a side effect. If we were in a World War II sort of war, an existential fight against nasty dictatorships on the brink of world conquest, that would be very expensive and would require a gargantuan government, but that would be what the government should be doing. That would be a large, but still limited government, since it’d be working to protect our rights.
World War II would have been the wrong time to squawk about “small government,” but it wasn’t (and never is) a bad time to demand limited government. Today would be a better time to ask for a small government–at least the job it should be doing is small today–but it misses the essential point; we want government to not do certain things. Many of those things we don’t want it doing are expensive but many of them are quite eminently doable by a smaller government than the one we have today. Small, but still exceeding proper limits.
So be careful what you ask for. You might get it and find you asked for the wrong thing.
Political Science In Summation
It’s really just a matter of people who can’t be happy unless they control others…versus those who want to be left alone. The oldest conflict within mankind. Government is necessary, but government attracts the assholes (a highly technical term for the control freaks).
His Truth?
Again we saw an instance of “It might be true for Billy, but it’s not true for Bob” logic this week.
I hear this often, and it’s usually harmless. As when it’s describing differing circumstances, not different facts. “Housing is unaffordable” can be true for one person, but not for another who makes ten times as much.
But sometimes the speaker means it literally. Something like 2+2=4 is asserted to be true for Billy but not for Bob. (And when it’s literal, it’s usually Bob saying it.) And in that sense, it’s nonsense, dangerous nonsense. There is ONE reality, and it exists independent of our desires and our perceptions. It would go on existing if we weren’t here. We exist in it. It does not exist in our heads. It’s not a personal construct, and it isn’t a social construct. If there were no society, reality would continue to be what it is, it wouldn’t vanish…which it would have to do, if it were a social construct.
Now what can change from person to person is the perception of reality. We see that all the time. And people will, of course, act on those perceptions. They will vote for Trump (or try to) if their perception is close to mine, and vote against Trump (and certainly succeed at doing so) if their perception is distant from mine (and therefore, if I do say so, wrong). I have heard people say “perception is reality” and usually, that’s what they’re trying to say–your perception of reality is, as far as you know, an accurate representation of reality, or you’d change it.
But I really wish they’d say it differently. And sometimes, to get back to Billy and Bob, the person who says they have different truths is really saying they have different perceptions of reality–different worldviews. I can’t argue with the latter. But I sure wish they’d say it better. That way I’d know that someone who blabbers about two different truths is delusional and not worth my time, at least not until he passes kindergarten-level metaphysics on his umpteenth attempt.
Lawyer Appeasement Section
OK now for the fine print.
This is the Q Tree Daily Thread. You know the drill. There’s no Political correctness, but civility is a requirement. There are Important Guidelines, here, with an addendum on 20191110.
We have a new board – called The U Tree – where people can take each other to the woodshed without fear of censorship or moderation.
And remember Wheatie’s Rules:
1. No food fights 2. No running with scissors. 3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone. 4. Zeroth rule of gun safety: Don’t let the government get your guns. 5. Rule one of gun safety: The gun is always loaded. 5a. If you actually want the gun to be loaded, like because you’re checking out a bump in the night, then it’s empty. 6. Rule two of gun safety: Never point the gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy. 7. Rule three: Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. 8. Rule the fourth: Be sure of your target and what is behind it.
Gold blooped up over the 3000 dollar mark briefly Friday, but retreated a bit and closed at the level shown above (it actually closed a bit higher than that on Thursday). So of course the FRNSI is at an all-time weekly high. Silver did very well this last week; long overdue; gold is now worth over an ounce less silver than last week. Platinum shows some signs of life. Maybe it is only mostly dead.
*The SteveInCO Federal Reserve Note Suckage Index (FRNSI) is a measure of how much the dollar has inflated. It’s the ratio of the current price of gold, to the number of dollars an ounce of fine gold made up when the dollar was defined as 25.8 grains of 0.900 gold. That worked out to an ounce being $20.67+71/387 of a cent. (Note gold wasn’t worth this much back then, thus much gold was $20.67 71/387ths. It’s a subtle distinction. One ounce of gold wasn’t worth $20.67 back then, it was $20.67.) Once this ratio is computed, 1 is subtracted from it so that the number is zero when the dollar is at its proper value, indicating zero suckage.
The Ides of March
Yes, our calendar is a direct descendant of the Roman calendar, particularly after Julius Caesar’s reforms.
That doesn’t mean we’d have any idea WTF we were looking at when looking at a Roman Calendar. They didn’t lay out months in tidy little rectangles like we do, with days numbered from 1-31. (Or 30, or 28 or fairly rarely 29.)
Nope they did something totally wacky, at least from our point of view.
The Kalends was the first day of the month. The Nones was the ninth day before the Ides. The Ides were, in turn the 15th day of full months (months of 31 days), or the 13th day of hollow months (months of 30 days) [Before Julius and Augustus Caesar, February had 30 days.] After some reforms months could have four different lengths and even the 31 day months were handled two different ways.
Counting through the days of the month, the 1st was “on the Kalends”. the 2nd was “the day after the Kalends” OR it could be called (in March, May, July and October–MMJO) the “Sixth day before the Nones” and for every other month the “Fourth day before the Nones”. Then count down each subsequent day until on the 7th (MMJO) or 5th (all others), was “On the Nones.” But beware because the “Third day before the Nones” was followed by “the day before the Nones” (there was no “second day before the Nones). The next day (8th or 6th) was “The day after the Nones.” OR that day could be called the 8th day before the Ides. Then the 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd days before the Nones…and then skipping over “the second day before the Ides” to “the day before the Ides.” Then the Ides…which was on the 15th (MMJO) or 13th (all other months).
Then it gets tricky. For MMJO, the day after the Ides (the 16th) could be called “The day after the ides” or “the 17th day before the Kalends” Note, though that (for example) March 16 was called “the 14th day before the Kalends of April.” So April was being named…even though it was really still March! For January, August, and December, the “day after the Ides” (the 14th) was also “the 19th day before the Kalends”. For April, June, September, and November (all 30 days at the time), the “Day after the Ides” (the 14th) was “the 18th day before the Kalends”. For February (28 or 29 days) the “Day after the Ides” (the 14th) was either the 16th or 17th day before the Kalends of March”.
You would then count down to the second-to-last-day of the month and that would be the 3rd day of the Kalends, and the last day would be “the day before the kalends.”
Of course they did this in Latin, not English, so for example, they’d say “ante diem tertium decimum Kalendas” (the 13th day before the Kalends) and write it down as “a.d. XIII Kal.” since who wants to write all that out?
The day after Kalends, Nones, or Ides were considered “black” days and unlucky. (Though they were off one day for Julius Caesar.)
[Note before the Julian reforms, there were no thirty day months; there were MMJO (31 days), February (28 days) and everything else (29 days) and they followed the rules for MMJO, 28 day Februaries, and the 29 day February, respectively). When the caesars made January, August and December into 31 day months, they actually left the Ides in the same place relative to the Kalends (i.e., on what we call the 13th of the month) rather than moving the Ides to the 15th, to avoid messing up festival days.]
Somehow, they were able to use this insanely complex system and still have enough brainpower left to conquer the entire Mediterranean world.
And NO I don’t have this memorized, I had to look it up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar. Otherwise I’d not have the brainpower left to butcher the topic of geology.
A Deeper Dive on Isotopes
Last time I described the atomic nucleus as it came to be known during the early 20th century, and I discussed radioactivity. I touched on isotopes a bit; time for a deeper dive.
As chemists worked to measure atomic weights for all known elements (painstaking and unglamorous work; the ones doing this are the unsung heroes of chemistry) it became apparent that most elements had atomic weights that were almost an integer multiple of the element with the lightest atomic weight: hydrogen (for example, taking hydrogen as 1 (not the currently used value!), helium comes in at 3.971, very close to 4. But there were a few oddballs, too, elements with a not-very-close multiple, like (and now I’ll use the current values, with hydrogen at 1.008, not 1.000) boron (10.81), neon (20.18), chlorine (35.45). Just eyeballing the list it looks like about a quarter of all elements are “off” like this.
It wasn’t until people started ionizing elements and sending the ions through a magnetic field to see how much their trajectories bent that we started to understand this. This was first done by J. J. Thomson (who had discovered the electron, and loved to play with magnets and charged particles) in 1912 with neon gas. Neon is atomic number 10, ten protons, and as I mentioned its atomic weight is 20.18. Thomson discovered that neon is actually mixture of two different things, one with an atomic weight of 20, another with an atomic weight of 22. The signal was weaker for 22, so he figured it neon was mostly the atomic-weight-twenty stuff.
These were both undeniably neon; there was no way to separate them chemically because they both behaved the same (which is to say, being totally unwilling to engage in chemical reactions; neon is a noble gas). They just weighed different. Thomson however had been brought up believing that atomic weight was an inherent property of an element, so he thought of it as two separate gases. We don’t think this any more. They’re both neon. And we now know there’s a very small amount of neon atoms with a mass of 21.
As more and more of these experiments happened, it became clear; if an element’s atomic weight was far off from an integer, it was a mix of these “isotopes.” Aston (who formulated the “whole number rule” for isotopic masses) showed in 1920 that chlorine’s 35.45 atomic weight was due to being a mixture of atoms with mass 35 and mass 37 units.
When talking about just the nucleus of an atom, we often use the term nuclide instead of isotope (which is the whole atom). It’s not a hard and fast rule but chemists will tend to use “isotope” and nuclear physicists including those researching fusion will be a bit more likely to say “nuclide.”
Again, the chemical behavior is nearly identical. In principle a heavier isotope should be slightly slower to react than an lighter one, but the practical difference is nil except in one case. Thus when it matters (and it usually doesn’t), chemists and physicists will write something like neon-20 or neon-22. When they can do so they will follow the formal convention: 20Ne or 22Ne. I am able to do that here (writing the post) but not in comments; but it’s such a pain to do so (wordpiss), that I will stick with writing either neon-20 or Ne-20.
And by the way, for our purposes here, it does matter. Quite a lot.
The one exception regarding chemical differences is the case of hydrogen, which usually has mass number of 1, but some few atoms have a mass number of 2. If you concentrate the mass-2 stuff, and use it to make water, you have heavy water, which even though it’s technically hydrogen monoxide just like tap water is, will kill you. (It also melts at 4 degrees Celsius so it’s possible to put a heavy water ice cube in a glass of water at 1 degree Celsius and it won’t melt. It will sink to the bottom, too, which is even weirder.) In fact for hydrogen and hydrogen alone, there are “special” names for the heavier isotopes; hydrogen-2 is called deuterium and (in this context) hydrogen-1 is called protium. There is also hydrogen-3, which is radioactive and is called tritium.
Once the neutron was discovered by James Chadwick in 1932, we got some clarity as to what was going on. Neutrons, it turns out are very slightly more massive than protons, We now know that neon-20, neon-21 and neon-22 all contain ten protons (neon has ten protons, by definition), but they contain 10, 11, and 12 neutrons, respectively, the total of the two numbers 10+10, 10+11, 10+12 gives you the mass number.
So what happens when you do this sort of analysis on other elements as found in nature? Fluorine (#9) has one isotope, F-19. Tin (#50) has no less than ten isotopes: Sn-112, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 122, and 124. The natural proportion for each of these ranges from 0.34 percent to 33 percent.
It is possible to create isotopes in the lab. So long as the number of neutrons isn’t too high or low, you’ll get a nucleus that hangs together for a while, perhaps even permanently. Otherwise the excess neutrons will “drip” off (fail to stick even momentarily) or if there are too few neutrons, a proton will “drip” off.
Between these bounds, the isotope will be intensely radioactive, less intensely radioactive, even less intensely radioactive, dang near stable, or actually stable. (Those are not “official” terms by the way.) And if you include all those made-in-a-lab-and-very-unstable isotopes the isotope counts go way up. Tritium is one of them for instance, and tin actually has isotopes ranging from 99 through 140.
Why do we need to make those highly radioactive isotopes in a lab? Because if there were any on earth originally, they have long since decayed away and none are left.
[If you poke around on wikipedia you may see references to something being “observationally stable.” That means an isotope that they believe on theoretical grounds is almost stable but it’s so close to stable they haven’t caught it decaying yet. In other words “we think this ought to be very very mildly radioactive–so mild we haven’t detected it yet so maybe it’s really stable after all.” Three of the ten tin isotopes I mentioned are “observationally stable”]
Because we are able to produce almost-arbitrary nuclides in the lab, we have pretty complete tables of nuclides–both a table with columns and a bunch of numbers in them, like you see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_tin, or nice graphical ones like this:
Going across the bottom, you have the number of neutrons, going up you have the number of protons, as shown in this excerpt from the very lower left corner. Note that the same isotope number for different elements lie on a diagonal. (They also threw in a bare neutron, mass number 1, element zero.)
The colors indicate how the isotopes decay; black is a stable isotope. Blue is a β+ (positron) decay (or capturing an electron), orange is losing a proton (technically it’s “dripping” the proton), deep purple is dripping a neutron, yellow is alpha decay (note that 8Be alpha decays–and what’s left over is a helium nucleus, which is itself an alpha particle; so really it just splits in two). Green (visible at the other end of the chart) is spontaneous fission where a nucleus splits into two or more large pieces. Finally the pink or light purple squares like 3H are β– (ordinary beta decay).
If you paid attention last time, you should be able to figure out what the isotope will turn into. For example 10Be undergoes beta decay, so it goes up one in charge (it now has 5 protons) but stays the same mass. It becomes boron-10, which is stable.
This chart also indicates half life. And I will more than likely be pasting in other pieces of it in future posts.
OK, so we have this list of all possible isotopes (and ones that arguably shouldn’t be considered isotopes because they “drip” when you try to create them). What do we see when we look “out there” on Earth? This is, after all, supposedly a series on geology, right?
The isotopes we see fall into three broad categories.
Stable isotopes. Every single stable isotope is found on Earth. Every last one.
Long lived isotopes. Isotopes over a certain half-life (which I will discuss below) will be found on Earth too. Again, every last one. (And by the way some of those half lives exceed present day estimates of the age of the earth by millions or even billions of times. And “observationally stable” isotopes, if they turn out to be radioactive, will have even longer half lives.)
Short lived isotopes. Some of the known short-lived isotopes can be found in nature. Here’s the thing though. In all of these cases, we can identify a natural process that is creating those isotopes, even at the present moment. For example, carbon-14 with a half life of about 5,760 years is being produced in the upper atmosphere by cosmic rays impacting nitrogen-14 nuclei. Uranium-234 has a half life of 245,500 years, and is created by uranium-238 decay (U-238 becomes thorium-234 due to an alpha decay, then Th-234 becomes protactinium-234 via beta decay, then Pa-234 becomes U-234 after another beta decay). All of those intermediate products, of course, we also detect in nature (and they have very short half lives of days or hours) so they fall into this category too. But, very important: We do not have any short lived isotopes we cannot account for this way.
This actually paints a picture: We have a situation where we have primordial isotopes–ones that apparently were always here on Earth, and the others, that weren’t. Since anything that could be a primordial nuclide based on being stable or having a long half life, is here, there’s no reason to suppose that some other nuclide that is now not found in nature wasn’t actually once here–only to have decayed completely away. Which means the Earth would have to be old enough for them to be gone by now.
OK, so what’s the dividing line between short lived and long lived isotopes? Somewhere between 100 and 700 million years.
Uranium-236 is listed twice (I just noticed). The 234,200,000 figure should not be there, so I crossed it out.
We cannot find plutonium-244 in nature. We’ve tried, some claim to have found it, but it’s inconclusive. Likewise with samarium-146. But we have no trouble finding uranium-235…and were even able to send Hiroshima, Japan a care package of the stuff on August 6 of 1945, the first nuclear bomb to be detonated in anger.
As it happens, samarium-146, if any were present on our Earth 4.5 billion years ago, would have gone through over 40 half lives, which is to say less than a trillionth of it would be left today. Uranium-235 (which we know was here) has gone through six half lives, so over one percent of it is still left.
In other words, this situation is consistent with Earth being 4.5 billion or so years old, as dated by other methods. If there were significant amounts of Pu-244 or Sm-146 around, the Earth would have to be considerably younger than this (though it could still be in the billions of years) for that to make sense.
All told, there are 251 stable nuclides, and 35 long-lived primordial nuclides.
As it happens many of the primordial nuclides can be of use in radiometric dating. We’ll dive into that next time. It’s now 10:16 PM here and I’m sure people are getting antsy.