Dear KMAG: 20200814 Open Topic / Little Boy, Fat Man & The Sundance Kid / The LancetGateEffect / Ivermectin & COVID-19 / On Staying Therapeutically Agnostic / Masks OFF

This [Q-3]TH of AUGUST FRIDAY open thread is OPENVERY OPEN – a place for everybody to post whatever they feel they would like to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA / KAG! / KMAG world (KMAG being a bit of both MAGA and KAG!).

You can say what you want, comment on what other people said, and so on.

Free Speech is practiced here. ENJOY IT. Use it or lose it.

Keep it SOMEWHAT civil. They tried to FORCE fake Orwellian civility on us. In response, we CHOOSE true civility to defend our precious FREEDOM from THEM.

Our rules began with the civility of the Old Treehouse, later to become the Wolverinian Empire, and one might say that we have RESTORED THE OLD REPUBLIC – the early high-interaction model of the Treehouse – except of course that Q discussion is not only allowed but encouraged, and speech is considerably freer in other ways. Please feel free to argue and disagree with the board owner, as nicely as possible.

Please also consider the Important Guidelines, outlined here in the OLD January 1st , 2019 open thread. Let’s not give the odious Internet Censors a reason to shut down this precious haven.






Our movement

Is about replacing

A failed


Political establishment

With a new government controlled

By you, the American People.

Candidate Donald J. Trump

Also remember Wheatie’s Rules:

  1. No food fights.
  2. No running with scissors.
  3. If you bring snacks, bring enough for everyone.

Little Boy, Fat Man & The Sundance Kid

OK – we have a problem. Sundance’s reveal, undoubtedly a NUKE of Eeyore proportions, is coming soon.

Many of us want to talk about “Sundance stuff”, which tends toward DOWNSIDE THINKING.




I will agree that SD does not do “mea culpa” well, or even “at all”!!! 

I believe SD’s point about Mueller team control is not going to convince those who don’t see “control from below” as control. SD’s mind lives inside DOJ structure, and not everybody can or even wants to follow him there, but in a DOJ-centric problem, I gladly adopt his framework of seeing things, because it works like crazy for me, too.

Sundance’s warm-up revelation about Tash Gauhar is solving all sorts of problems for me, and is also enough of a reveal of the SERIOUSNESS of the long-term problems at DOJ, that I am on board with SD’s reveal JUST ON THAT ALONE. His big reveal (not the Durham deputy – the OTHER reveal) HAS TO BE in the space I’m computing, and that space is dangerous as hell to America, and must be revealed before the election, whether Barr is going after it or not. I’m not fully sure what it is, but just the SET OF POSSIBLES is enough that any sunlight becomes good sunlight, Barr or no Barr. IMO.


I do see control from below as control. I would very much like to know more of your thoughts about your last paragraph. An article about that would be great (if I may be so bold!)!


Just saw this – let me get out of notification view and see what I said!

But now, take a look at these tweets, to see where SD is going…..

Sundance responds to a bunch of trolls and splodeyheads, but this one has some meat:

SD is also saying that he will reveal to selected journalists on FRIDAY, and will reveal to US on Saturday.

NOW – here is my problem.

Not everybody here wants to see Sundance stuff, which can be – WELL – for many people, especially Q people, demoralizing. I expect his reveal to be BEYOND controversial – I believe it will OFFEND and OUTRAGE, drawing mockery and derision, even if people claim it’s a nothingburger. It will stir the pot – as intended.

So I’m going to make three proposals about where I will discuss “Sundance stuff”.

  • keep it in the daily open – DEAL WITH IT – FIGHT OVER IT
  • separate posts, NOT in the daily open – KEEP IT AWAY
  • on The U Tree

I can live with any of these, but I currently believe “other posts here” is the best for all concerned. Let me know what you all think. It will happen before morning.


The LancetGateEffect

Repeating from last week, I continue to harp on the “LancetGate Effect”.

This is the article that brought it to my attention:


…..and here is the original article…..


Banning HCQ in Switzerland left a FOOTPRINT in the data. I would argue that there is half a footprint in FRANCE, too…..

This evidence is extremely convincing, and is blowing people away. I get more “old” likes and retweets on this one, than almost anything.

But here is the biggie:

There was a LancetGate Effect in The United States.

This graph is a real convincer.

I alerted administration HCQ advocate Peter Navarro to this (having no idea if he saw my tweet – only TWITTER and the DNC and the CCP know), because I think there is a “knowledge crisis” here. Waiting too long for published data (by the same publications which were victimized by LancetGate, no less!) showing we’re killing people by letting the media badmouth a “best current early treatment”, is a RISK to many – science, the people, AND this administration – maybe even to its enemies, who will ultimately pay for an increasingly costly crime.

We really should have seen this coming – that there would be KARMA and CONSEQUENCES for banning HCQ on less than pure motives.

However, once you start digging into the FDA drama, it gets complicated – particularly with saboteurs like Rick Bright entering the mix.

But let’s ask a question posed by Gail Combs – is this whole HCQ thing a TRAP?

You know – THAT is a damn good question.


Wolfie what is your take on this subject?

I really think we need to thoroughly explore this possible ‘TRAP’ (Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t) so we understand it.

Gingersmom2009 earlier was saying that President Trump is ‘Weak’ because he did not use an E.O. to overrule the ANTI-HCQ SABOTEURS in the CDC, FDA….

… I and don’t want to be that floating turd — but someone was pretty strident here in a reply to me yesterday AM about the Stanton Act and how POTUS can’t go against Fauci/Birx or he’ll be removed from office. The EUA is exactly what needs to happen….

That was me.

DP, Ginger, and others.

Causualties in nursing homes was done PRECISELY to get the reaction you have. These people have spent over 100 years perfecting the methods of ‘herding you’ into the direction they want you to go

[start of a long comment]


I can understand why DP, Ginger, and others are furious and want POTUS to DO SOMETHING! I am livid too. I am so angry that if a Karen demonrat gets in my face about masks I would probably punch them…

HOWEVER, I can step back and I THINK I SEE A TRAP.

So what say you?

Is POTUS sidestepping a trap? Or is he ‘weak’ in not using an E.O. to address the HCQ issue?

THIS is a beautiful demonstration of how politics and science are interacting BADLY, and why we need to keep both politics and corporate money OUT of influencing science judgments.

We will deal with part of this below, in something I call “therapeutic agnosticism”.

For now, I think it’s very legitimate to ask about Trump’s relationship with both the health bureaucracy – much of which OPPOSES HIM and SUPPORTED HILLARY CLINTON – and with the corporate and NGO behemoths – much of that world controlled by Bill Gates – and most of which is also politically opposed to Trump.

I think that the other side will weaponize ANYTHING, and yes – I think they may well have been trying to trap Trump on HCQ.

In my opinion President Trump has done enough. He has been honest about his belief in HCQ, but he is letting the medical pros make decisions, and they will answer for any mistakes.

If FDA scientists don’t reverse course on HCQ due to the LancetGateEffect, and the evidence keeps rolling in, then I believe Azar and Hahn will have all they need to clean the place out very soon.

There are constructive paths forward – I’ve suggested one already, but there are others. Any EUA or other action which broad-brushes early use of more antivirals and explicitly includes HCQ is fairly absolving without spotlighting, and serves the interests of both “big pharma” and “people’s pharma”.

Note that remdesivir has been approved for more widespread use. If that use can be moved forward in time, such as allowing an early bolus injection “somewhat off label” or EUAed under doctor’s supervision, early in HCQ COVID treatment, and it gives improved results (I would almost bet on it), then patients, doctors, and researchers all benefit. Likewise, EIDD-2801 and RLF-100 need to be tried earlier, IMO.

Yes, to some extent this is expensive “boutique medicine”, adding big costs for small percentages of better outcomes, but honestly, THAT is exactly why people have private insurance and THEIR OWN preferred providers and drugs. Research is expensive, well-heeled customers who will spare no expense WANT that extra edge, so it’s a match made in capitalism.

If the MONEY can get these new fresh drugs WHEN THEY NEED THEM, and those who want cheap and reliable HCQ can get THAT when they need it, then hopefully we can all benefit – most of all insuring that patients are not dying of this minor but annoying flu which – I have to say on now-sketchy lungs – is not exactly as minor as the usual coughs and colds, even if it is, for most, more minor than regular flu.

So let’s talk about therapeutics in general, but FIRST just one of them.

Ivermectin & COVID-19

Thanks to bakocarl for turning me on to this article, which has proven very enlightening as I’ve dealt with the PROCESS of understanding it at a general level.


I had promised that I would do an explainer on this, and to some extent I already did, in comments, but I want to get some deeper thoughts out there. Also, this topic brings up the issue of “therapeutic agnosticism”. This is about not just STATING conflicts of interest in backing or not backing particular therapeutics, but DEALING with those conflicts – ADDRESSING THEM – very openly. Thus, I explain this idea more fully below.

This article has a freely downloadable PDF version HERE:

If you search through the whole article, you will NOT find zinc mentioned AT ALL, and any time zinc is not controlled, an HCQ or HCQ+AZT study is operating with a loose wheel, in my opinion.

This becomes even more important because of the way the CONTROL for the ivermecting (IVM) add-on was done.

The control study for IVM+HCQ+AZT was done by RETROSPECTIVE ANALYSIS of earlier hospital treatment using HCQ+AZT alone. The authors understand fully the limitations of doing this, and I agree with them fully – it is better to do a potentially flawed study here than none at all. There is a strong ETHICAL argument for comparing PAST BEST to NEW BEST – and one doesn’t have to invoke Melania to know it’s right – DOING BEST is BEING BEST!

Using dice to send some patients to WORSE TREATMENT is not a braggable thing. Better to take some lumps on uncertainty, IMO.

What are the risks of comparing two hospital studies NOT done at the same time – where one of them is designated a “control”?

“Control” assumes that you’ve changed exactly what you know you changed – it means that you have a reliable reference, preferably MINIMIZING differences that have to be explained away.

Yes, it’s the same hospital, the same doctors, the same staff, but we all know that treatment for COVID has changed MASSIVELY over time. Here are important changes:

  • less vents
  • more steroids
  • better diet including vitamins and minerals to resolve deficiencies
  • more oxygen earlier
  • better testing, all kinds

As you can see, there are reasons for outcomes to be better now, completely independent of the study object, ivermectin. NEVERTHELESS, the authors DO see better results – significantly better – if they give patients a big dose of IVM at the beginning of HCQ-AZT treatment. They do as much correcting for differences as they can, in comparing individual outcomes, and I believe they tried to do a good job.

Skipping past how I got there, my reading of this is that IVM is very likely acting a LOT like AZT (azithromycin, Z-pak, AZM, whatever). It is providing a SHOTGUN for unicellular and multicellular organisms, weighted toward PARASITES. It has a different SPECTRUM from AZT, and will complement it. This will affect both pre-existing and new infections.

It is EXTREMELY LIKELY that this should work, even if IVM has NO ANTIVIRAL ACTIVITY.

It’s beautiful science – and also explains why the “pro-crisis” camp would oppose use of ivermectin.

The argument isn’t whether ivermectin is an antiviral, or any worse or better than anything else. The argument is whether is can be used to save lives, and how well it does that, versus something else – including simply NOT USING IT.

If these results hold, or are even partially confirmed, then I think ivermectin needs an EUA along with HCQ and several other new antivirals, for doctors to begin solving things EARLY with antivirals and “therapeutic adjuvants”, when they work best, as I mentioned LAST WEEK.

Now, let’s talk about therapeutic agnosticism.

On Staying Therapeutically Agnostic

Now – we have seen incredible bias against hydroxychloroquine – nicely summarized HERE:

If you get into that article, you will see where “the powers that be” try to KNEECAP hydroxychloroquine into “hospital use only” – which absolutely does not make sense, until you realize that one of the more unique problems of the new and just recently approved antiviral drug remdesivir (which Fauci labeled the “new standard” despite unimpressive performance in late-stage COVID), is that the drug needs to not only be administered by IV, but it also has to be observed closely for nasty side effects, and thus being up until recently stuck in a late stage, hospital patient track, which is NOT a good place for antiviral success.

SO – rather than getting remdesivir into earlier settings, what did they do? What the CHICOMS routinely do – KNEECAP THE COMPETITION in some way that nobody sees.

Honestly, if you’ve been in science and been halfway observant, you’ve seen how the corrupt ChiComs operate – MAFIA techniques – frequently SABOTAGING the other guy, although perhaps not until AFTER stealing the technology – so they seem to be quite comfy with the general lack of morality of the growing “medical mafia” in the US.

A match made in HELL.

Anyway – here is the deal.

We do NOT want to be like them THE OTHER WAY.

  • don’t cheer the failure of ANY drug – figure it out and fix it
  • every drug is different – help them ALL find their perfect niche to help us
  • never ever conduct a sabotage study like LancetGate
  • don’t reject studies “going the other way” – UNDERSTAND AND EXPLAIN THEM
  • call out sabotage, bias and error, no matter who is committing it
  • if you know why “the other guy’s drug” is FAILING, you are morally obligated to help fix it
  • if you know why “the other guy’s drug” is WORKING, you are morally obligated to explain and even recommend it
  • pharmacology is not a zero sum game, even though patients are a zero sum market – every new drug adds to the arsenal of salvation

In short, I wish for people who are fighting the suppression of HCQ to not become deniers, defamers, and “opponents” of other drugs and vaccines, because doctors need those too, for patients who want or need those specific drugs or treatments.


Even if the other team doesn’t play that way.

By this attitude, we will DEMONSTRATE the superiority of our approach, which I sometimes call POPULAR MEDICINE.

Masks OFF

The fly in the ointment that mocks the smooth, lying MASK SOCIALISTS is SWEDEN.

To which I responded…..

This wonderful meme comes from Aubergine. I also used it HERE:

We need to start thinking about measuring things, because I am CERTAIN that masks are hurting us – nickeling and diming us to death.

I am having success understanding oxygen deprivation using my cheap oximeter, but I need perhaps a more expensive model to take finer cumulative readings and record them.

Gail Combs suggests that we can capture mask CO2 as well.

Let us think about this problem, because I am certain that CHINA is behind it.

I will add details later of why I believe normal mask wear leads to cognitive deficits for 30-60 minutes AFTER shopping with a mask.

Carry on, Digital Soldiers!


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Security – it’s a whole new ball game….


That robot looked scary. Can imagine them taking over inner cities and patrolling the streets.


I can’t decide if that is the coolest thing in the world or the most terrifying


I can’t decide if that is the coolest thing in the world or the most terrifying
It is both cool and terrifying. In the wrong hands it could be terrifying.


I hate it when people try to perpetrate hoaxes.

Gail Combs

“The Process for Obtaining an Arrest Warrant
An arrest warrant is a legal document usually issued by a judge or other legal authority, that allows law enforcement officers to lawfully detain a person who is suspected of being involved in a criminal matter. However, an arrest warrant can not solely be obtained on the hunch of a police officer alone. The process for obtaining an arrest warrant is guided by the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution.
The Fourth Amendment requires that no warrant be issued unless it can be demonstrated that there is probable cause to believe that someone has committed a crime. The amendment is designed to protect people against unlawful invasions of their privacy.
However, the law has been rather vague on what exactly constitutes probable cause. Probable cause is much less than the reasonable doubt standard required to adjudicate someone as being guilty in a criminal proceeding….”

Gail Combs

Three out of four of my pick-ups are Dodge. Maybe I should trade Hubby’s Ford in for this model Dodge…comment image


WOW Gail…

Cuppa Covfefe

Remember Gallagher’s routine about the Dodge Ram?
Something about “it’s big, it’s tough, it’s mean, and it says ‘DODGE’ on the front. And just in case you don’t get the point, it says ‘RAM’ on the side”… 😀 😎

Deplorable Patriot

I saw this earlier and debated on posting it here.
I really wonder what the heck is going on if she’s that panicked.


Complicity in spreading falsehoods? Liable? Lord knows – she is mixed up in so much muck!!!

Deplorable Patriot



Mika is a good actress.
What s strange er family came from Communist Poland and she promotes marxism?
Was her dad left leaning also? Why did they come here if they wanted to change our way of life?
Joe seems to become whatever he sleeps with.

Deplorable Patriot

Her father was Carter’s national security adviser. He also, it is reported, was running the foreign operations of the deep state before he died in May of 2017. Convenient that he and David Rockefeller passed away in the early months of the Trump Administration.


comment image


Eeeeeewww…that is too close for comfort, FG&C!!!


Bevis and Butt face, er I mean head.


I guess, but for myself I’ve already saved that honor for Pozner and Donahue if anyone remembers the show. I even wrote and English paper on it once upon a time long ago. But celebrities come and go while Bevis and Butthead seem to stick around.


Mika what an ugly woman insight and out. She proclaims o love her Catholic church wonder how she squeals her faith with the evil doing of slander.


Correction: Squarers not squeals


There is no justification of faith – merely a cover for the evil within – however – we both know there are evil entities in all of the churches – satan infiltrated them all – nothing is pure any longer, Singing!
Look at the eyes – after all – they are the mirrors to the soul – dark blank expressionless eyes show the evil inside – you cannot fake that, Singing!


There definitely have been changes in her from years back.


When I think of the influence of her father – I find it hard to see the ‘changes’ to which you refer, Singing…


Mika is more open in her propaganda than she used to be.


I see – well – that makes sense – you would know, Singing – I never paid much attention to her – did not like her father at all – evil man.


Here they go. Using Q to foment a GOP split. For the record, McCarthy was passed over for speaker (Lyin’ Ryan got it) because of an affair he had with a staffer or someone on Capitol Hill. Now they don’t think that will be enough so they are tossing Q into the mix.
One thing for sure – the 2020 election season is going to be highly amusing.

Fake F’n News, copied from WaComPost or NYToiletPaperTimes??

Deplorable Patriot

Not many care about affairs any more.
I don’t know that using Q as a wedge is going to work, either. If the internal numbers, the page views, etc., are as high as has been indicated, a critical mass of Republican voters know and follow.


McCarthy is a DS tool who was in bed with John Boehner.
We want Devin Nunes or Jim Jordan as Speaker.


I want Jordan 100%, he has EARNED it.

Deplorable Patriot

Nunes maybe, but not Jordan. He’s more effective in committee hearings than the role of speaker. He’ll turn off too many major gift donors. That’s essentially why McCarthy is in that spot. He can fund raise.
Yes, it’s all about the money at a certain point.


PG did not SD warn us concerning Q that it could be used against POTUS?
On he other hand the evil will use anything against to split the GOP or us.
We need to have peace among us to win hey want to split us up we cannot let that happen.

I absolutely love and adore the picture chosen for this tweet!!!! ROFLMAO


Brenner’s is incorrect. It should read, Inshallah [if Allah wills it].

This is inline w/what Grenell was saying about the IC community. They hate seeing all the politicization.



… 😉👍‼️‼️🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸 .. good ol’ Michigan eagle … who-hoo ‼️🤨🤚😛😝😜😋


Crab vs Robot

Bwahahahahaha .. 🤨👍😝😂🤚‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️



BLM on the march….. creating new Trump voters every day!


Garfield HS is on 23rd where they were marching, and I have no idea what the area is like today, but when I was in HS, that’s where a lot of black students were. I remember when bussing started and there were a few that came to our school from Seattle.


Well, the 9/11 light tribute has been canceled due to . . . covid concerns with the workers. POTUS was just in NYC today, visiting his brother — with a big front page on the NY Post about NY state being in play in November.
POTUS should make the lights happen. Take it over and get it done.


NYPD SBA is going to do the twin lights – the same group that just gave President Trump their endorsement !!!


And, I heard the Towers to Tunnels organization is going to be involved. 👍


Good! Maybe others will join!
Wish PDJT could be there for the lighting. When it happened, he sent his restaurant staff to feed the rescue crews every day!!!


It is 6:20 PM on Friday, Aug. 14th in DC.
And OU still sux.


I’m talking about the beams of light at the WTC.


The DC Circuit Court is as corrupt as hell itself.


Donald J. Trump
The biggest difference between the Presidential Race in 2020 and that of 2016 is the 2016 candidate, Crooked Hillary Clinton, was much smarter and sharper than Slow Joe, we have even more ENTHUSIASM now, and
has become politically correct and no longer the big deal!


comment image


Anybody else think he’s queer?



LMAO. Checkmate.


Be still, my heart.
[giggle; snort]


did you see that Pelosi and Schumer, in a PANIC asked the postmastewr general to give them documents that state WHYO. Here’s a thought for these two LOSERS, how bout that the USPS has LOST over 2 billion a YEAR for decades thanks to GOVT run bloat, and the LACK of accountability to FIX the problems.


And, Little Hitler FauXi says we can vote in person.
Dr. Anthony Fauci dismissed concerns about conducting the upcoming election in the era of the Chinese coronavirus — and in-person voting, particularly — stating in an interview on Thursday that there is “no reason why we shouldn’t be able to vote, in person or otherwise.”


Guessing Atlas and President Trump compare notes.
I do wonder what Azar learned while in Taiwan regarding HCQ, Zpak, and Zinc. Other Covid treatments and strategies as well.


Peyton Bobo
Did I get this link from you?

Cuppa Covfefe

Somehow I think Atlas won’t shrug…
(ducks and runs…)….
Once they clear out all the snakes from D.C., there won’t be any DEMONicRATS left… nor RINOS…

SNORT…..Whoda Thunk It??
Leo Turrell on Hannity, wearing his Red MAGA hat, signed by POTUS!!!😂😂👏👏👏


I loved it! Leo is such a badass.

OMG!! I used to could not stand him!!! Screaming at Candace, Interrupting, Yelling when not his turn, GRRR!!🤬 FF every time he came on! So Mad at Laura for having him!
Same with that Chris Hahn guy, Laura and Janine can you hear me???😊


Trey Gowdy hosted Hannity’s TV show tonight. He was surprisingly good. I suspect he took some speech classes because his delivery was measured and steady.
I suspect Hannity is testing people to take over his TV show.


Roosterhead is a bought and paid for DS goon.
Change my mind.


That means he’s perfect for television.


Clearwater Trump Boat Parade – 10 am tomorrow PLEASE FORWARD
Posted on August 14, 2020 image


This is a really good point:


Israeli hospital trials super-quick saliva test for COVID-19
RAMAT GAN, Israel (Reuters) – A newly developed saliva test aims to determine in less than a second whether or not you are infected with the novel coronavirus, Israel’s largest medical center said on Thursday.
Patients rinse their mouth with a saline wash and spit into a vial. This is then examined by a small spectral device that, in simple terms, shines light on the specimen and analyses the reaction to see if it is consistent with COVID-19.
With machine learning it gets more accurate over time.
Eli Schwartz of the Center for Geographic Medicine and Tropical Diseases at Sheba Medical Center, who is leading the trial, said it was easier to use than PCR swabs commonly used to detect COVID-19.
“So far we have very promising results in this new method which will be much more convenient and much cheaper,” he said.
The center said in an initial clinical trial involving hundreds of patients, the new artificial intelligence-based device identified evidence of the virus in the body at a 95% success rate.
Amos Panet, an expert in molecular virology at Jerusalem’s Hebrew University, said he would like to see more data and comparisons with existing tests before making a final judgment.
The amount of virus present in saliva increases as patients get sicker, he said, and a big challenge is to detect in “people who are borderline”.
“It will be a game changer only if we see validation of this technology against the current technology,” he said.
Sheba, located just outside Tel Aviv, has partnered with the device’s developer, Israeli firm Newsight Imaging, to bring the system to market.
The company said they are in the process of getting regulatory approval. Each test costs less than 25 cents and it expects the device will eventually cost less than $200.

Now you’re talking!!!
That’s my idea of what needs to happen. Schools, workplaces, etc…Stop the Fear, Open the economy….WE MUST HAVE ACCURATE INSTANT TESTS. Given at the door, COVID free or NO ENTRY.
Praise God for ISRAEL and her people, highly blessed and favored by God, to help the whole world.


Those damn joooz.



Warning, Language….But Fiona is putting Weisman on blast…This is one of many. Sidney has a zinger too.


If I ever get a pit bull, I’m naming it Sidney.


[…] Dear KMAG: 20200814 Open Topic / Little Boy, Fat Man & The Sundance Kid / The LancetGateEffect /… […]