Impeachment "Inquiry" versus Impeachment "Investigation"

It’s important. We’re on the verge of something truly awful in our country and it must be stopped. If we lose our legal system, our system of checks and balances, we lose fairness.

Background: A Congressional subpoena is a merely a request to appear, and has no enforcement mechanism. There is no penalty for not showing up as long as there is merely an “inquiry” in the House. The push for the House vote “resolution” is a legal trick, way out on a limb in a gray area of the law, to give the House “judicial authority” or the ability to subpoena, demand testimony of witnesses and documents… without giving the other side the ability to defend themselves. In other words, the Legislative Branch wants to become the Judiciary……….. because they don’t like the President.

It’s a weird place we’re in. The logic is flawed and strange to regular Americans. It’s “if you have nothing to hide, why not allow me to do an anal probe of your family, your business, your… everything.” Well, one might think, first, there better be a damn good reason for that kind of intrusion. Does a bureaucrat have the right to give ME an anal probe because I was selected as a cheerleader in high school and they weren’t, or because I had a party and didn’t invite them, …….. or because I won the 2016 election and beat them?

If the House actually believed the President sold out our national interest for a “favor” in the 2020 campaign, which constituted a campaign contribution from a foreign power, the criminal referral would go to the DOJ…….. Well, it did go to the DOJ, and it’s already been rejected… using Mueller’s own words. AND the DOJ has issued a letter to strongly admonish the ICIG for ever allowing the issue to rise to the level of “urgent concern”…. which is why we see Adam Schiff backtracking from all things concerning the whistleblower and the President’s phone call with Zelinsky.

…. This left radical elements within the House frustrated in their efforts to impeach the President. Thus, Nancy Pelosi announced an “impeachment inquiry”, which means she and the media can use the word “impeachment” without all the normal accoutrements which go along with an official impeachment, as in the President and Republicans get to defend themselves. Still, the House has no reason for the anal probe. There is no crime nor mention of a crime. There has been no independent counsel, now referred to as a Special Counsel, which has referred a crime to Congress. Yet, this is the logic Pelosi is using. In other words, “Sit still Mr. President, while I give you this anal probe.”

Enter Judge Howell. – Beryl A. Howell worked for Senator Leahy on the Judiciary Committee and was the primary staffer when Leahy was drafting legislation to create the Homeland Security Agency after 9/11. Staffers remember Howell. ” According to one “she showed up at meetings wearing a Mao green military hat and sometimes in full Mao military fatigues” and was “a total socialist left winger.” Howell also authored articles on expanding the understanding of obstruction of justice……. with…… Andrew Weissman …… throughout the years, and Howell also gave a speech in honor of Loretta Lynch at a tribute dinner in 2016. http://conservativehq.com/article/26233-deep-state%E2%80%99s-kangaroo-court

Judge Howell, DC Federal Court, Obama appointee, made a crazy ruling (effectively determining the House process “legal” AND allowing the House to pierce the veil of Grand Jury testimony) which set this whole thing in motion in the House = the vote on “impeachment inquiry” versus the legal precedent of “impeachment investigation”. It’s an important distinction which could affect the future of all rights of ALL Americans.

Here is the 75 page ruling from Judge Howell: https://www.scribd.com/document/432058248/House-Judiciary-Committee-v-DOJ-Mueller-Grand-Jury-Material

The confusion between “inquiry” and “investigation” from Pelosi/Schiff/Lawfare is intentional and designed to mislead the public, giving the impression of more openness in the House, and twisted for effect by a compliant media. No, the President and minority will still have NO RIGHTS to defend themselves, and the Judiciary Committee will gain further power…… corrupting the protection for innocent people involved in grand jury testimony…… forevermore. It’s a HORRIBLE precedent to set.

Nancy Pelosi is attempting to present to the public the idea that her “resolution” is normal course of business, or “the next step” in impeachment. No, it is a vial and corrupt twisting of our system where the legislative branch becomes the DOJ — but only for Democrats.

Sidenote: Howell was the judge presiding over the grand jury for Mueller’s Special Counsel http://conservativehq.com/article/26233-deep-state%E2%80%99s-kangaroo-court . She should have immediately recused from this case for a blatant conflict. Her reaction (found in her ruling) to the President’s Counsel Cipollone letter of justification (why the WH refused to cooperate outside of established procedure) indicates Howell’s reaction was CLEARLY political and her motivation is HIGHLY suspect. It’s alarming…. coming from a Judge.

The importance of privacy within a Grand Jury: This cannot be stressed enough. The privacy of a Grand Jury is sacrosanct. The system is structured so it cannot be invaded, even by mistake. There are no transcripts of the proceedings. Disclosure of Grand Jury Testimony by anybody, any time, is a felony. So, to have a COURT grant permission, to a non-judicial body, in this case a partisan House Committee, a partisan faction of a Congressional Committee, is tantamount to overturning black letter criminal law dating from Medieval English Common Law. The Grand Jury system is the replacement for the heinous Star Chamber system and the Schiff led Democrats are, in essence, recreating a Star Chamber, to their eternal shame and certain demise.

Big T, verbatim, October 29, 2019

To give an example of what would happen if the Grand Jury is cracked: Let’s say I am indicted for murder. A prosecutor goes before the Grand Jury and presents evidence of my guilt AND is allowed to withhold anything adversarial to his side of the story. The Grand Jury hands down an indictment. I am arrested and hire F. Lee Bailey. The pissant prosecutor, scared by my legal counsel, and knowing it is a weak case, orchestrates a leak of selective evidence put forth during the Grand Jury to infect the potential jury pool.

It’s the PRIMARY reason Grand Jury testimony is kept of limits = to NOT sway public opinion.

NOW, with a trial at least 6 months away, I would be faced with swirling media (just like President Trump) attention, and scorn from my neighbors (voters who think Trump is guilty) who have only heard a piece of the evidence. How would I ever get a fair trial? My attorney, being the star he is, while draining my life savings, files a motion for change of venue, arguing I couldn’t get a fair trial, and that the PROSECUTOR is responsible for the Grand Jury leak….. which creates even further public attention. The Trial Judge would order a hearing on my motion, but denies it. You think I exaggerate? Remember the Valerie Plame case? The deck would be stacked against me. When I walk into court, the jurors would sneer at me, already convinced of my guilt.

It’s EXACTLY what Schiff is attempting to do to President Trump, and is succeeding at doing, with the help of a compliant media and a biased judge who would allow such an outlandish ruling.

THIS is WHY the testimony and materials of a Grand Jury must be protected.

After the Howell ruling, which makes the Pelosi process legitimate for now, Lawfare/Pelosi/Schiff are trying to “hurry up”. Pelosi/Schiff/Lawfare are trying to run (before the ruling is appealed), give legitimacy and create the illusion of a “judicial proceeding”, which is a technical term. If the House votes and establishes a “judicial proceeding”, OUTSIDE OF A COURT, it’s still a gray area. The House/Lawfare thinks it will give the judiciary committee ALL OR PARTS OF the grand jury testimony from Mueller’s Special Counsel (millions of documents) + subpoena power + STILL NOT an official impeachment investigation = no rights for the President and Republicans.

Therefore, STILL no power or rights to the minority and no power to the President to defend himself, call witnesses for his side of the story, or have his attorneys question witnesses or object…. like we would normally do for a traffic ticket.

The DOJ (not the President’s team) have requested a “stay”, which means the ruling cannot take effect (blocking the vote in the House) until a decision is reached on appeal. It would be normal to grant the “stay” but when dealing with the emotions of Federal Judges, anything can happen. Here is the Motion from DOJ: https://www.scribd.com/document/432384070/DOJ-s-Motion-to-Stay-10-28-19#from_embed

Overall, the process is WRONG and UNFAIR because the President and his administration cooperated at an extremely high level within the Executive Branch (Mueller + DOJ + White House + Agencies), allowed McGahn and others to testify (over 500 people/2800 subpoenas), produced records and info which normally would be withheld because of Exec privilege. The President also chose to answer questions of the Special Counsel to help the investigation proceed expeditiously, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING his response and supporting docs would be held within the Special Counsel and he did not give up Exec Privilege or a basic right to NOT cooperate under 5th Amendment. The HOUSE is seeking to overturn basic rights of ALL those 500 people including the President of the USA.

See the problem?

Furthermore, if the House is allowed access to “grand jury testimony” by legal trick of claiming a “judicial proceeding” (which it’s not and never has been –>> it’s why we have courts), then the ruling will annihilate the confidential nature of Grand Jury proceedings for us all. Would you, as a well intended citizen EVER give testimony in the future… if you knew your identity and words would be examined forevermore in public…. or could be used against YOU, cherry picked and taken out of context, in a future and unknown case? The threat of future retribution, from a competitor/lover/friend would silence everyone. I’m not sure how you could even carry out a civil proceeding of a divorce trial. Such a precedent would alter our legal system.

Without a doubt, it’s possibly the worst miscarriage of justice we’ve ever seen. There might be another example which is worse, but can YOU think of one? It scares the hell out of me. If our leaders can do this to a Billionaire President of the United States, what would they do to someone small like me?

What American would willingly VOTE for giving away our rights against self-recrimination or to NOT be able to mount a self-defense?

And it’s for the impeachment of a President of the United States.
It’s the kind of thing you don’t even wish on your enemy.
It’s a persecution and not a normal prosecution.
And in no way, EVER, could this farce be construed as a search for the truth. In fact, the Pelosi/Schiff/Lawfare “play” is purposely designed to HIDE THE TRUTH normally allowed to ANY American’s vigorous defense. It’s shocking.

It is correct to say “it’s a gray area” of the constitution.
True. It is.
Just because impeachment proceedings in the House have always been bipartisan, taken seriously, open and above board, does not mean “constitutionally” that they HAVE TO BE.
Legally, the judgements and proceedings COULD BE one sided. We COULD disregard former guidance from our ancestors (the Johnson Impeachment which was seen as political after the Civil War) which cautions against “impeachment for a political end”, and we can throw precedent established for other impeachment hearings (Nixon/Clinton) out the window…. which is what Pelosi is doing.

Does the decision of Pelosi/Schiff/Lawfare go against everything we hold dear about our justice system, our series of checks and balances between legislative, judiciary, and executive branches……….., yeah, it does.

We’re in dangerous territory.

And to EVERYONE who thinks it doesn’t matter……. cuz impeachment will never get through the Senate….. stop right there. Just…….. stop….. and think.

If we allow this precedent to be established in the House, for future impeachment proceedings (along with upending 200+ years of grand jury precedent) who is to say we won’t have a Democrat Senate 20yrs from now? 100 years from now?

What we do today, this decision, these proceedings, will set the course for our future.

It’s important.

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Deplorable Patriot

Still reading, but THIS…this is a tactic being used in more places than just the impeachment theater. Anywhere where there are absolutes in play that the cabal, or the people trying to destroy the order built don’t want certain absolutes in place, deliberately sowing confusion is in play.
“The confusion between “inquiry” and “investigation” from Pelosi/Schiff/Lawfare is intentional and designed to mislead the public, giving the impression of more openness in the House, and twisted for effect by a compliant media.”

wolfmoon1776

What the Pelosi Democrats are doing here is creating CLASSIC Stalinist kangaroo courts in everything but name. I mean, they are creating LITERAL Stalinist communist Russian-style kangaroo courts, and because they are constantly shouting “Russia!” and “Ukraine!”, we’re not supposed to see that they are setting up LITERAL kangaroo courts that were used in – to be very exact – Russia and Ukraine.
President Trump could quite honestly call these KANGAROO COURTS – or more precisely SOVIET kangaroo courts – and he would be right on the money.
These are communist tactics, pure and simple.
The part about this radical Obama judge, Beryl Howell, wearing Mao garbage to DHS planning meetings makes all kinds of sense based on what I now know about 9/11 vis-a-vis Bill and Hillary Clinton.
A simple saying tells the truth about what happened on 9/11 and in its aftermath:
“The center right will not only allow but perform the duties of the radical left – as long as the center right thinks it is justified and in control.”
This is the secret of controlled opposition which really needs to be taught to all young conservative children, and which will never be taught to them by leftist public school teachers, who view them as the future opposition, to be controlled.

smiley2

Pelosi’s DECEPTION !
no rights for the minority…and/or the Executive Branch !
good article on this, here…
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/10/pelosis_deceptive_impeachment_vote.html

NebraskaFilly

Oh, my! Another outstanding post!!! Shared on FB.

patfrederick

some info on Beryl and Weissman/ Leahy
FTA
Our friend Paul Mirengoff of PowerLine identified another potential problem with Howell; her close association with a member of Mueller’s team — Andrew Weissmann.
Mirengoff reports the two worked together as assistant U.S. attorneys in the Eastern District of New York. That by itself wouldn’t be problematic. However, according to the Daily Beast, the two co-authored an article in 2006 about (of all things) obstruction of justice.
The next year, Weissman thanked Howell, then a member of the U.S. Sentencing Commission, for her help with another article she wrote. Clearly, the two have a relationship that continued well beyond their days as young prosecutors, concluded Mirengoff.
Given Howell’s work for the hyper-partisan Leahy and her relationship with Weissman, there are substantial reasons to doubt her impartiality in the Russia investigation matter.
Our friend Rick Manning, President of Americans for Limited Government yesterday issued the following statement urging Chief Judge of the District Court of the District of Columbia Beryl Howell to recuse herself from considering the investigation being brought by Special Counsel Robert Mueller:
You can hear the railroad whistles in the distance as special counsel Robert Mueller, a friend of fired FBI Director James Comey, who deliberately set the stage for Mueller’s appointment out of spite for his dismissal, will have a federal judge who used to work as a Democrat staffer on the Senate Judiciary Committee overseeing the case. The judge, Beryl Howell, not only used to work with one of the Democrat prosecutors now hired to staff the investigation by Mueller, she co-authored a paper together with him where they argued for a very broad view of what constitutes obstruction of justice. To make matters worse for anyone hoping that the Mueller witch hunt will somehow focus on obvious direct malfeasance by the Obama Justice Department and its former FBI Director, Judge Howell worked with former Attorney General Loretta Lynch and even spoke at a 2016 dinner honoring her.
The President of the United States deserves better than a kangaroo court, and if Judge Howell and Mueller for that matter do not recuse themselves from being involved in these proceedings, then current Attorney General Sessions should rescind his recusal which was done for far less rationale, and end the Mueller farce once and for all. The fact that Judge Howell did not immediately disassociate herself from the case, indicates an extraordinary lack of judgement. Unless she reconsiders, Attorney General Sessions has no option but to step in and end this political witch hunt.
When President Obama nominated Howell in 2010, Senator Leahy said: “We rarely have before us nominees to the bench with the breadth of experience that she brings.”
Experience indeed. Friends of ours on Capitol Hill remind us that immediately after 9/11 when Leahy was working on the bill to establish the Department of Homeland Security Beryl Howell was his staffer handling the bill. According to one “she showed up at meetings wearing a Mao green military hat and sometimes in full Mao military fatigues” and was “a total socialist left winger.”
this from a ConservativeHQ.com 8/11/17 article…entitled The Deep State’s Kangaroo Court

patfrederick

yup…no photos in the article tho

patfrederick

LOL

Cuppa Covfefe

Plus another “marker” of DEMONicRATS… a woman who looks like a man…
What is it with these perps?
Ugly to the bone, indeed, ugly to the soul…

pgroup

No offense but it’s about time you got on the train of clues. 🙂
Seriously, I figured that out a couple of decades ago.

patfrederick

you’re welcome

ozzytrumpster

Can this be grabbed by the supremes or do they have to be asked. I mean it’s so antithetical to us law that even rbg( or whoever’s giving her opinions/signing for her) would be adamantly opposed to this hostile takeover of us law as evolved from English common law. Hundreds of years of precedent and carefully adjudication down the drain.

nikkichico7

I went picking around for a pic in the Mao suit and stumbled on this … not sure if it’s good or bad …
Justice Department asks judge to block House from obtaining …
Search domain http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/justice-department-asks-judge-block-house-obtaining-mueller-grand-jury-n1063856https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/justice-department-asks-judge-block-house-obtaining-mueller-grand-jury-n1063856
Attorneys for the Department of Justice, however, told Chief U.S. District Judge Beryl Howell that the House Judiciary Committee has not gone through the correct legal process necessary to obtain …
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry/justice-department-asks-judge-block-house-obtaining-mueller-grand-jury-n1063856
.. 😐🤚 …

ladypenquin

I’m hanging in there that this is ultimately a loss for the Dems. POTUS is not without recourse in the Courts regarding the Howell ruling. There is also executive privilege. There is also the ability of POTUS to declassify and reveal the dirty deeds the Dems are hiding. This isn’t happening in a vacuum.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1189162426895347712.html

GA/FL

THIS^^^
Particularly this part:
“Now it’s a battle over cost. How much of a Political price will this fake Impeachment cost the Dems? As long as Trump’s approval numbers remain high the cost will be very, very high for the Dems and too high for those in the GOP uniparty.

Trump has always said Washington is rigged that the deep state controls the DC. Swamp. I can think of no better way to drive this statement home to the people then having the Dems and deep stste impeach him over nothing.

The Dems are losing the narrative on Impeachment. They are adrift in the ocean on a life raft with no food, no water, the sun shining down and all they have to keep them warm at night is a thin blanket of impeachment. It doesn’t look good for them.

The kicker is they can’t accept how much trouble they are in. They think the USFM will come and save them. They don’t know the United States Fake Media’s helicopter is broken down, out of gas and unable to rescue them.”

ladypenquin

Thanks, GA/FL for the actual quotes. I thought about bringing all of the thread, but wasn’t sure. It was kind of a discouraging night and morning… and I deliberately look for other input that is logical and reasonable to analyze. This fits with what we know regarding POTUS’ strength, and the outcomes expected from Barr and Durham, et al.

GA/FL

Unseen is top stuff – reliable and thorough.

ozzytrumpster

They are between the devil and the deep blue sea. There crimes ,if revealed , will cost them more

Katie

I posted this on Flep’s round up late last night so you probably missed it.
It shows very clearly how PDJT has the people on his side.
https://twitter.com/realjack/status/1188979380749586433?s=21

GA/FL

Too bad it stops 7-31-19

kinthenorthwest

Thank You daughnworks247–So much to digest but as you know it is being shared
Do Believe I posted this on one of the other threads.
Interesting article. Actually picked it up from Real Clear Politics
Goodwin: Why are Democrats acting like they have something to hide?
https://nypost.com/2019/10/26/goodwin-why-are-democrats-acting-like-they-have-something-to-hide/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons
https://twitter.com/GracieLovesUSA/status/1188868135434113028?s=20

Exfiltration of Wealth

Your “anal probe” analogy is an apt one.

CM in TN

They seem hell bent on losing the consent of the governed…keep digging that hole congress critters…

wolfmoon1776

They are quickly proving that they are SOVIET Democrats. Can you IMAGINE what these people would be like if they got back into the White House?

CM in TN

I’m only a Gen X’er, but man it’s crazy how quickly and exponentially our gov’t has gone sideways just in my short 44 years!

Concerned Virginian

Mr. President:
PLEASE DECLASSIFY and RELEASE what you have. Now.
The “vote” on Thursday in the House is a ploy to stop you from doing this.

wolfmoon1776

Why would it stop him? I just don’t see it.
I don’t know about what you are suggesting, which would amount to POLITICAL RELEASE. Sounds like walking into a Democrat TRAP to me.
Look at Comey. The WHOLE THING was an obstruction trap, from the beginning, geared toward MAKING TRUMP OBSTRUCT. Congress, sadly, is somewhat ALLOWED to be political. Trump needs to keep their powder WET by not giving them any good powder, and that means DON’T BE LIKE THEM.

michaelh

“If you have nothing to hide…”
So it’s OK to punish people with onerous IRS audits, targeted for political reasons?
So it’s OK to FLYNN ordinary Americans? To trap them in phony interviews, create phony perjury traps, and even change the evidence after the fact when it doesn’t support the desired conclusions?
So it’s OK to HALPER and push fraudulent visas to spy on Americans like Carter Page and George P? They didn’t do anything wrong, have nothing to hide, so it’s OK to surveil them and put them in rigged entrapment scenarios?
So it’s OK to make up LIES about the President of the United States in order to support multiple witch hunts simply because you are unhappy with the results of an election?
But you’re mad that the ex-husband released the photos of you stupidly grooming a staffer.

A Fortiori

We are going to have to address this “if you have nothing to hide” ethos. Most people don’t know where this notion originated.
Prior to the Ralph Nader “Unsafe at any Speed” hysteria, citizens could reasonable expect not to need to interact with police in the process of going about their daily affairs. They could readily do so if they wished, but it was not considered unseamly to treat any such interaction with suspicion. And citizens could and often did reject police interactions if they felt the police were being the least bit intrusive.
The pretextual traffic stop changed all of this. Having been promised that surrendering our liberty to the traffic stop would save lives, we agreed to do so. As part of the process, however, traffic enforcement has fundamentally changed the relationship between the citizen and police. Now we are expected to allow law enforcement scrutiny any time law enforcement presents the slightest hint of a pretext. And in some situations, given that the SCt has upheld drunk driving check points, no pretext at all is required.

pgroup

Ilive in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Washington, a political subdivision of Uganda. Most of politics here is lightly varnished communism but one area where our Supreme Court got it correct is pretext stops.
Pretext stops are outlawed here. It’s still pretty bad but not as bad as you describe.

A Fortiori

I stand corrected. According to this article, only 37 states allow DUI checkpoints:
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/rules-of-the-road/article235778837.html

A Fortiori

Judge Howell’s decision is a “Constitutional moment”, a turning point where we see a clear assault on the fundamental practices that support and uphold the principles embodied in our Constitutional.
Daughnworks247 is right. I’m not sure how we engage on this, but it must not stand.

wolfmoon1776

Kangaroo courts. They MUST be rejected!

ladypenquin

Retweeted via Jeff Carlson, a astute conservative journalist.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1189193088981504000.html

singingsoul1

Just listened to news on Limbough the decorated military witness told Schiff and Co that he was troubled over Trump’s phone call. He is supposed to be a Ukraine expert.
How many traitors are in the WH and why do these clown feel that they know better than POTUS? They are there to advice and POTUS takes or leaves what he does not need.
To me this whole charade by democrats that crimes can be created by partisan unethical witnesses who have an ax to grind. This is so discussing and to me it looks they all went to the KGB training camp and imported this crap here..

wolfmoon1776

Yes – it’s all very RUSSIAN COMMUNIST, isn’t it?

itswoot

Radical Democrats are in the process of pushing America far astray from the basis of what our laws should be, which is what is right, just and fair.
“Since law is the rule of human conduct, the ultimate end of which is happiness, and indeed, the common happiness, it is necessarily always ordained for the common good.”
– Thomas Aquinas

michaelh

Somehow I don’t think the Democrats running this charade are good Thomists.
The simplest answer is that they aren’t concerned with the “common good” but only themselves, money, and power.
And at this point, anything to save their back sides.
Two standards: One for themselves, and one for everyone else.
Millenia of Western philosophical, legal, and moral tradition get thrown under the bus under these conditions.
Fortunately the truth can’t be laid flat on its back for long.

wolfmoon1776

Things may get spicy.

michaelh

I hope that the D’s like theirs with ghost peppers, b/c the worst is coming for them.

ladypenquin

I wonder if the Dems realize that it’s highly likely POTUS has had some FISA warrants active on some of their brethren.

PeteC

I golf with quite a few lawyers (two of the guys are former DOJ). One thing I’ve learned over the years—don’t let them keep the scorecard!!! Lol.
Great, timely post Daughn! I hate when lawyers (Lawfare) start arguing semantics over facts (subjective vs. objective). This is a full frontal assault on our legal system by the communist Lawfare group, and Howell is gladly acting as their accomplice (they are high-five-ing each other over drinks at their DC watering hole in the evening)!
This is the starting point where a civilized society becomes uncivilized, injustice is painted as justice, and precedence is purposely corrupted out in the open, in your face!
LAWLESSNESS celebrated by corrupt lawyers! And even worse, corrupt judges! What a foul odor!

PeteC

At this point, I don’t think the Leftists or Lawfare group give a damn about their abject lawlessness—the MSM creates the dialogue to cover their asses and subsequent corruptive moves!
We know they view the Constitution as an antiquated, useless set of Articles and Rights for our day and times, and especially for their agenda regarding America. And they have simpatico judges who believe the same.
So for Schitt and gang, first it was quid-pro-quo, or “tit-for-tat” (something that congresswoman from California was into!)—and when that was exposed as bullshit, they have had to move the goalposts to “obstruction” (just like Mueller hoax)!
All business is quid-pro-quo—I provide you this product or service for that (what the other party in the transaction provides—usually money). It is when it hides criminal activities that quid-pro-quo becomes illegal (“Joe-pro-quo” perfect example!).
The Congressional Dems seem to be pursuing a “scorched earth” plan of attack—very desperate direction!

wolfmoon1776

The Soviet Democrats have not considered a Republican to be a legitimate president since they killed their own last legitimate president – JFK.

GA/FL

Well – I don’t believe it’s a safe thing to say that an Impeachment won’t get through the Senate.
There are enough bought-and-paid-for scoundrels among the Republicans to vote and pass it.
One of my Senators would likely do just that. Rubio

Concerned Virginian

Watch MITT ROMNEY. I believe he’s the point man for getting just enough “Republicans” in the Senate who will pledge to vote for conviction IF this farce gets to the Senate for trial.
My list of who would vote to convict “out of concern for the country” / “my conscience compels me” horsesh$t:
RUBIO
COLLINS
MURKOWSKY
ROMNEY
THUNE
SASSE
MIKE LEE
Maybes:
CORNYN
CRAPO
BURR
PORTMAN
Especially if ANY of the above have ANY ties to corruption in Ukraine / lucrative contracts with entities with DeepState ties.

SteveInCO

Did you forget Gardner (RINO-CO)?

Concerned Virginian

Thanks for adding him to the list!

Deplorable Patriot

Blunt – MO

SteveInCO

Bluntskull. Yeah, another good one

singingsoul1

Portman is in my opinion a moderate. He is a devout Christian and one can pray he does the right thing.
It bothers me that those proclaiming to be Christians are not doing the right thing.

ozzytrumpster

Didn’t Cronyn fall off his perch? In which case he’ll definitely be voting yes

Cuppa Covfefe

It’s getting kind of “pin-up purple” over here lately. I could expect it OT, but not here.
The attempted destruction of the centuries-old and sacrosanct Grand Jury process (and its legal predecessors in English and other law) must be addressed sharply, and immediately. Roberts and Ginsburg may well play a part in slapping down this idiocy from the DEMONicRATS, which on the one hand isn’t reassuring, but on the other, I’ve seen Ginsburg vote in favor of keeping longstanding procedures.
In any case, judging (sorry) from what Barr and VSGPDJT (along with his staff) have been saying, this WILL be addressed. And the DEMONicRATS can go pound sand.
If nothing else, they must be scared Schiffless if they’re going to all this trouble…
Btw, how IS Ruthie doing, anyway? Anyone seen her lately???
4-4 SC looking at this could be interesting…

GA/FL

I’M NOT DOUBTING PDJT – but the stupid corrupt RINOs

wolfmoon1776

“We have nothing to be concerned about except concern itself.” 😉

GA/FL

REMEMBER – Rubio was Romney’s protégé – and wrote the Gang of Eight amnesty bill.

kalbokalbs

It may be just me, but, everytime I read, “gang of eight ” I am repulsed by the very notion, the implication…
Too much power in so few politicians.

Katie

StormyPatriotJoe has been pointing out on Twitter that there’s got to be a message in the mess of ‘cables’ on the table in the photo of POTUS et al in the Situation Room.
IF, and I mean IF this is true, there is a message there and it’s not for us. It’s for the treasonous bastards.
Did our military get actual CABLES from the State Dept to Bag Daddy? Is the intelligence they collected even more valuable than the removal of Bag Daddy and his henchmen???? The audio is about 10 mins…you can start around the 2:00 mark to get to the important part.
Wolfie, would REALLY love your thoughts on this!
https://twitter.com/sxdoc/status/1189148372466319361

PeteC

So, the implication, if true—is that the special forces retrieved information (cables) belonging to Bag-Dadi that showed direct communication between Obama’s State Department and Bag-Dadi.
And there is a “sign” in the photo of the President and Brass in the Situation Room when they were observing the Mueller Operation—that being, all the cables strung about on the table.
First, this is speculation. However, when I saw that photo on Sunday, I immediately thought how trashy (unprofessional) looking it was having all those cables slung about on the middle of the desk! I said—“What the hell is up with all that crap there…we can’t do better wiring than that in the Situation Room”!!! Hmmm—makes you wonder??!!

kalbokalbs

Noted the wires.
Not an issue by me. Folks with secure laptops at the appropriate level can plug in, so to speak on very secure systems. Immediate access to information they have on their laptops. Don’t have to search or rely on servers.

PeteC

Great point, Kalbo! Why I said speculation—just trying to explain their theory in simple language. Still think all the cabling looks shoddy! Lol

kalbokalbs

It does look shabby. Another minor point… Red cables may indicate level of classification authorized. Red se ret. Orange top secret….

michaelh

^ That.

ozzytrumpster

@REX @drawandstrike
The amazing DawsonSField is at it again.
“So after about 3 pages of redacted information. Strzok signs his life away on this statement. Written on 08/14/17, so the August 302 was from the 7/26/17 interview by INSD on the leak about how McCabe was planning to F @GenFlynn”
https://
https://t.co/8ktT7D9up9

ozzytrumpster

Dawson fields has some terrific posts.
Wierd name though

ozzytrumpster

Appears the US is a bit nervous about what Judge Sullivan is planning based on his dismissal of the 11-7 hearing. They damn well should be.comment image

ozzytrumpster

The whole impeachment farce is a desperate ploy to derail the above, and the whole cancerous core or the deep state

andyocoregon

Rats! Despite having passed a permanent Daylight Savings Time law this summer, we still have to set our clocks back this weekend because it turns out California has to sign a similar bill into law then Washington, Oregon and California can request Congress to give it the okay. And since Congress is obsessed with impeachment, It’s likely going to be sidelined.
Damn Congress and their one track mind of the fake impeachment attempt!
https://www.corvallisadvocate.com/2019/oregon-passed-a-permanent-daylight-savings-bill-but-well-still-be-falling-back-this-year/

wolfmoon1776

Why I’m NOT concerned – I’m angry at Soviet Dems and won’t stop until they’re in JAIL…
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1189278341481848833

ladypenquin

Was just about to bring R’s comment.

PeteC

Ristvan was short and sweet with his assessment. That’s good.
Some are speculating that Pelosi wants to see this vote shot down (failure to pass), so she has an excuse to flush this whole sham impeachment episode down the toilet. Interesting theory.

nikkichico7

…she’s a silly old fool … 😑🤚

GA/FL

From the News Roundup thread:
NebraskaFilly
October 29, 2019 at 11:33
“In Federalist 65, Hamilton defended the impeachment process laid out in the yet-to-be-ratified Constitution. However, he admitted that it wasn’t perfect.
The greatest danger was that the impeachment process would be abused for partisan purposes. Hamilton feared that an opposing party’s desire to impeach a president might be so strong that they would “enlist all their animosities, partialities, influence, and interest on one side….”
He wrote that, in such a case, the strength of the political parties—not the actual culpability of the president—would determine the outcome: “in such cases there will always be the greatest danger that the decision will be regulated more by the comparative strength of parties, than by the real demonstrations of innocence or guilt.”
Sound familiar? Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi have abandoned the procedural protections that occurred in previous impeachments, most importantly open hearings, the right to confront and cross-examine one’s accuser, and the right to call one’s own witnesses. Those protections are at the very core of due process. Without them, it is easy to distort evidence to make an innocent person appear guilty.”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/10/28/kobach-the-founding-fathers-nightmare/

GA/FL

Øbama, Pelosi and Schiff have done the same….
https://twitter.com/steph93065/status/1189234464611848199

GA/FL
para59r

Someone mentioned that Gen McMaster is the one that got Vidman his current posistion. Did a quick look and sure enough McMaster, while not on the board of the Atlantic Council has had plenty of exposure to it. Also for what it’s worth I found this on GQ.com, from an elaborte puff piece on Vidman:
“His posting to Moscow was a sign of both trustworthiness and accomplishment. “For a Foreign Area Officer to get assigned to Moscow, that’s a big deal,” explains McFaul. “And then to be seconded to the National Security Council as he was, that is a minority group. They’re the crème de la crème. You have to be super smart to get that job.” The Atlantic Council’s Daniel Fried, who designed the Obama administration’s Russia sanctions when he was at the State Department, met Vindman several times when he came in to talk to Vindman’s boss, the NSC’s Russia director (and witness in the impeachment probe) Fiona Hill. “He was always there, he was very sensible, completely non-partisan,” Fried recaled. “When I read his testimony [about President Trump’s July 25 call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky], I thought, right. He didn’t speculate, he only commented on what he knew about, he was thorough and methodical.” Vindman, Fried says, struck him as “a Boy Scout.” ”
https://www.gq.com/story/alexander-vindman-immigrants-america
Not surprised to see them coming to Vidman’s defense. Meanwhile I’m sure the Administration will know plenty more about the LTC if there’s more to know besides that he wants to share his dumb ass myopic opinion with the world.

para59r

Oh now that i re read that, sees that Vidman was likely watching over Fiona Hill too. Stooly pigeon for the Atlantic Council might be a fair guess.

churchmouse

It’s VinDman, by the way.
Thank you for the link. Fascinating.
The article also has this (see second paragraph):
‘And so Alexander Vindman, known to his colleagues as highly disciplined, especially about the strength of his convictions, marched over to the NSC’s legal office and reported what he had just witnessed: the President of the United States using the power of American military and diplomacy for his personal political gain.
‘One of the NSC lawyers to whom Vindman took his complaint was his identical twin brother and fellow ROTC alum, Lt. Col. Yevgeny Vindman.’
You could not make this up.

churchmouse

Thank you. Both points are most useful.

cthulhu

Got Karl all steamed up, as well — https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=237214

GA/FL

STATEMENT – WHITE HOUSE Press Secretary:

“The resolution put forward by Speaker Pelosi confirms that House Democrats’ impeachment has been an illegitimate sham from the start as it lacked any proper authorization by a House vote.
It continues this scam by allowing Chairman Schiff, who repeatedly lies to the American people, to hold a new round of hearings, still without any due process for the President.
The White House is barred from participating at all, until after Chairman Schiff conducts two rounds of one-sided hearings to generate a biased report for the Judiciary Committee. Even then, the White House’s rights remain undefined, unclear, and uncertain – because those rules still haven’t been written.
This resolution does nothing to change the fundamental fact that House Democrats refuse to provide basic due process rights to the Administration.”

GA/FL

🦋🦋bflyjesusgrl🦋🦋

He’s a Blue Dog Democrat. (1 of 28 Conservative Democrats)

para59r

Just a quick reminder. The sanctity of Grand Jury Testimony is not the only thing that has taken a hit in this quest by the cabal to take down a duly elected President. With the Cohen case we also saw the sanctity of Attorney Client privilege also take a sever hit. And for what? They failed and will fail again or drag us into a shooting war, which I must admit some people are relishing.

nikkichico7

Thank you Daughn for this thread I really appreciate it … awesome 🤨👍❤️❤️❤️‼️

scott467

“We’re on the verge of something truly awful in our country and it must be stopped. If we lose our legal system, our system of checks and balances, we lose fairness.”
_________________
From my perspective, we lost that a long time ago.
At least 20 years ago.
What we are seeing now is like the death-rattle, before it is consumed by its own corruption.
And that’s a necessary thing.
It has to be exposed for the rotted husk that it is, before it can be burned away and created anew.

scott467

And I think Lady Justice is peeking.
I’ve been blindfolded before, and any blindfold worn that high you can easily see under.
So she’s cheating.
And missing a nipple.
Maybe that’s what she’s looking for, peeking under her blindfold.

scott467

“Background: A Congressional subpoena is a merely a request to appear, and has no enforcement mechanism. There is no penalty for not showing up as long as there is merely an “inquiry” in the House. The push for the House vote “resolution” is a legal trick, way out on a limb in a gray area of the law, to give the House “judicial authority” or the ability to subpoena, demand testimony of witnesses and documents… without giving the other side the ability to defend themselves.”
__________________
So this should be good.
Anything that brings the matter to a HEAD is good.
So, if they vote to pass a resolution on their bogus impeachment, and then demand testimony and documents, simply refuse and appeal to the courts.
Eventually (or immediately, depending on how it works) it goes to the (not)Supreme Court, where we win, and the Dems are back to square one.
Or Roberts drops a load in his pants, exposing himself for the fraud that he is to the whole world (which I would count as a win), and then the American People get to throw down on the corrupt government and defend our president.
At least something would HAPPEN.
The biggest danger in this whole farce is that we all grow old and die before we find out how it ends.

scott467

“It’s a weird place we’re in. The logic is flawed and strange to regular Americans. It’s “if you have nothing to hide, why not allow me to do an anal probe of your family, your business, your… everything.” Well, one might think, first, there better be a damn good reason for that kind of intrusion. Does a bureaucrat have the right to give ME an anal probe because I was selected as a cheerleader in high school and they weren’t, or because I had a party and didn’t invite them, …….. or because I won the 2016 election and beat them? ”
______________
The problem I see many on our side (including Kimberly Strassell this evening) doing is getting into the weeds. Kimberly went on a 3 minute explanation of why the House Inquiry was bogus, but if I didn’t already understand what was going on, my eyes would have glazed over after the first 30 seconds.
We’re falling for the ‘false premise’ trap.
The Left presents a false premise, and the MSM lends it credibility, and then we argue all the details about why it’s wrong, and to the peanut gallery, it looks like ‘he said / she said’.
It’s not.
The proper response for anyone on our side who goes on TV is to simply say the following:
……………………………………..
“What the Democrats are doing is illegal. It’s unlawful. It’s unconstitutional. And the media knows it, and they don’t care, because institutionally, the MSM is the enemy of the American People, exactly as the President regularly says.
The Democrats are subverting the Constitutional process — that means they are violating the Constitution and the rule of law — and the MSM gives them cover and presents the lawlessness of the Democrats as if it was legitimate, and then invite Conservatives on to fight over the lawlessness of the Democrats.
So I’m not going to play their game.
But I will say this. The Democrats are involved in an ongoing coup attempt and high treason, and I expect many Congressmen and Senators, as well as former administration officials, to being going to the electric chair for their part in this Treason.
Then we’ll all know who was right, and who was wrong.”
…………………………………….
.
Truly, we don’t have to play along with their ruse.
We don’t have to play the game.
We can legitimately ignore them, ignore their subpoenas, ignore their demands, ignore their TV tantrums. Because they don’t have the force of law on their side, and the don’t have the force of physical power (military, police) on their side, and they don’t have the American People on their side.
We are not obligated to participate in their goofball scheme.
We owe them NOTHING.
So until they vote on a legitimate impeachment inquiry where the rights of the accused are upheld, they can F.O., and the MSM can F.O. with them.
Seriously.

scott467

Pelosi: “President Trump’s:
State Department
Department of Defense
OMB
Energy Department
& Vice President
Are all defying lawful subpoenas & document requests.”
______________________
The proper response, from every individual addressed, is:
…………………………………………
“Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, is a bald-faced liar.
If she wasn’t a liar, she wouldn’t need to make her case in the court of public opinion, she could just have her assertions enforced by the court.
She can’t, because she’s a liar.”
…………………………………………
Then move on, back to the daily schedule.

scott467

“Enter Judge Howell. – Beryl A. Howell worked for Senator Leahy on the Judiciary Committee and was the primary staffer when Leahy was drafting legislation to create the Homeland Security Agency after 9/11. Staffers remember Howell. ” According to one “she showed up at meetings wearing a Mao green military hat and sometimes in full Mao military fatigues” and was “a total socialist left winger.” Howell also authored articles on expanding the understanding of obstruction of justice……. with…… Andrew Weissman …… throughout the years, and Howell also gave a speech in honor of Loretta Lynch at a tribute dinner in 2016. ”
_________________
So clearly Howell is conflicted, and should recuse herself.
She would be forced by the MSM to recuse herself if the situation was reversed.
She won’t recuse, because she’s corrupt, just as her Democrat Party is corrupt.
So let her do what she’s going to do, and then appeal whatever decision(s) she makes all the way up to the (not)Supreme Court if necessary.

scott467

“Judge Howell, DC Federal Court, Obama appointee, made a crazy ruling (effectively determining the House process “legal” AND allowing the House to pierce the veil of Grand Jury testimony) which set this whole thing in motion in the House = the vote on “impeachment inquiry” versus the legal precedent of “impeachment investigation”. It’s an important distinction which could affect the future of all rights of ALL Americans. ”
_________________
Then it will certainly be appealed and overruled and thrown out.
And if anyone on our side has any sense, commence disbarment proceedings. Indict her for judicial misconduct.
DO something.
Stop letting these cretins kick sand in our face.
START FIGHTING FOR ONCE IN OUR FREAKING LIVES!

scott467

“The confusion between “inquiry” and “investigation” from Pelosi/Schiff/Lawfare is intentional and designed to mislead the public, giving the impression of more openness in the House, and twisted for effect by a compliant media.”
__________________
And she may succeed in misleading the public.
Fortunately, she won’t succeed in misleading the courts.
Some corrupt judges will make things difficult, but they expose themselves in the process if our side would only go after them.
In the meantime, we keep appealing all the way to the (not)Supreme Court if necessary.
They can’t win.

scott467

The importance of privacy within a Grand Jury: This cannot be stressed enough. The privacy of a Grand Jury is sacrosanct. The system is structured so it cannot be invaded, even by mistake. There are no transcripts of the proceedings. Disclosure of Grand Jury Testimony by anybody, any time, is a felony. So, to have a COURT grant permission, to a non-judicial body, in this case a partisan House Committee, a partisan faction of a Congressional Committee, is tantamount to overturning black letter criminal law dating from Medieval English Common Law. The Grand Jury system is the replacement for the heinous Star Chamber system and the Schiff led Democrats are, in essence, recreating a Star Chamber, to their eternal shame and certain demise.
Big T, verbatim, October 29, 2019″
__________________
Which is why it will NEVER happen.
Some hack crackpot judge cannot upend a thousand years of Common Law precedent.
She can try, but she’s not the king, she’s just a crackpot judge, and her crackpot rulings will be thrown out on appeal.

scott467

“We’re in dangerous territory.”
________________
Agreed, to an extent.
.
“And to EVERYONE who thinks it doesn’t matter……. cuz impeachment will never get through the Senate….. stop right there. Just…….. stop….. and think.
If we allow this precedent to be established in the House, for future impeachment proceedings (along with upending 200+ years of grand jury precedent) who is to say we won’t have a Democrat Senate 20yrs from now? 100 years from now?”
________________
I don’t believe the Democrat Party is going to exist a year from now. But even if I’m completely wrong, what can WE do to STOP any of it?
We could organize a 10 million man march on Washington D.C., and I’m all in for that. But I think it’s a little premature yet.
Remember, DJT is in control.
He can end this WHOLE FARCE at any moment.
In LOTS of ways. He has so many different ways he could end it, that he can pick and choose whatever suits him best.
He could finally DECLASSIFY everything.
He could arrest them ALL.
He could declare martial law and THEN arrest them all.
He could call on the American People to send TEN MILLION AMERICANS to Washington, D.C. to support him.
There is LOTS he can do to end this farce, whenever the timing seems best to him.
Until then, or until he gives us instructions, we wait.
.
“What we do today, this decision, these proceedings, will set the course for our future. It’s important. ”
_________________
I agree it’s important.
But DJT is in the driver’s seat, and we’re not.
He can stop this whole thing at any time, and apparently, in his great and unmatched wisdom, he is still giving them rope to hang themselves.
I’m as furious and frustrated about this idiocy as you are, but until or unless DJT gives us the signal to saddle up and ride, what can we do?

churchmouse

Thank you, Daughn, for an EXCELLENT THREAD!!

scott467

Pelosi: “If they have nothing to hide, why not comply?”
_________________
And this is one of the oldest tricks in the book, similar to “when did you stop beating your wife?”.
Any 1st year law student should be able to destroy both points and expose them for what they are easily.