Dear MAGA: 20190428 Open Topic


This very special ORTHODOX EASTER SUNDAY
open thread is VERY OPEN – a place for everybody
to post whatever they feel they would like
to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA world.


Say what you want, comment on what other people said,
comment on people’s comments.
Keep it civil.  Treehouse rules, but expect lots of QAnon.


See the January 1st daily thread for the rules of the road,
which are few but important.


Remember – your greatest gift to President Trump is FIVE WORDS:
I AM PRAYING FOR YOU

2019-TRUMP-at-easter-egg-roll-event.jpg


He Is Risen!

orthodox-icon-resurrection

Orthodoxy and Calendars

We are here to rejoice in solidarity with our Orthodox brothers and sisters as they celebrate the resurrection of our Savior today. But first, let’s spend a moment thinking about why calendars were so important that two of the oldest sects of Christianity are unable to pick the same date for Easter?

While the issue is somewhat complicated, it may be summarized in the two factors at work that cause this conflict in dates:
1) The issue of the calendar; and
2) the adherence by the Orthodox to the early practices of the Christian Church.

Why is Orthodox Christian Easter later than the Catholic one?

For the last week I’ve been pondering this. I’m not an expert on anything, but it seems that it has to do with the character of each stream of the faith. I’m thinking about that in the context of the God’s gifts to the Church.

And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, or building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,to the extent of the full stature of Christ…  Ephesians 4:11-13

The early Fathers of the Church that stood their ground against every heresy. Those following in their footsteps would be expected to default to standing their ground against suggested changes to the traditions. This is a good thing. It could be seen as the role of the Prophet in the Church. I’m seeing the Orthodox church as more strongly inclined to resist change. (Of course, there could be geopolitical reasons too.)

But consider if they have been gifted to stand like the prophets of old. Those who were willing to stand by the truth–from God–against every attempt to change it no matter what. If this is true, it would not surprise us that traditional methods for determining where Resurrection Sunday falls on the Calendar each year continue to be strictly followed in the Orthodox tradition. Also, the reasoning makes a lot of sense. The resurrection necessarily follows AFTER the Passover which is the foreshadowing of the sacrifice of God’s own Son to redeem us all from sin and death.

Most divisions between Orthodox and Roman Catholic are not emphasized in our day, but the calendar issues are the ones that seem to create the most visible separation.

While I might be understanding of how the Gregorian calendar came about, I also have a great deal of respect for the Orthodox Christian’s devotion to tradition and honor for the early practices of the Christian Church.

T*3
Eastern-Orthodox-calendar-of-Saints


What Is Eastern Orthodox Easter?

Customs, greetings, and foods by from LearnReligions.com

Easter season is the most significant and sacred time of the Orthodox Church calendar. Orthodox Easter consists of a series of celebrations or movable feasts commemorating the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Orthodox-Easter-lighting-of-candles

Observances of Eastern Orthodox Easter

In Eastern Orthodox Christianity, the spiritual preparations begin with Great Lent, 40 days of self-examination and fasting (including Sundays), which starts on Clean Monday and culminates on Lazarus Saturday.

Clean Monday falls seven weeks before Easter Sunday. The term “Clean Monday” refers to cleansing from sinful attitudes through the Lenten fast. Lazarus Saturday occurs eight days before Easter Sunday and signifies the end of Great Lent.
Next comes Palm Sunday, one week before Easter, commemorating the triumphal entry of Jesus Christ into Jerusalem, followed by Holy Week, which ends on Easter Sunday, or Pascha.
Fasting continues throughout Holy Week. Many Orthodox churches observe a Paschal Vigil which ends just before midnight on Holy Saturday (or Great Saturday), the last day of Holy Week on the evening before Easter. Immediately following the vigil, Easter festivities begin with Paschal Matins, Paschal Hours, and the Paschal Divine Liturgy.
Paschal Matins is an early morning prayer service or part of an all-night prayer vigil. Paschal Hours is a brief, chanted prayer service, reflecting the joy of Easter. And Paschal Divine Liturgy is a communion or Eucharist service. These are the first celebrations of Christ’s resurrection and are considered the most important services of the ecclesiastical year.

After the Eucharist service, the fast is broken, and the feasting begins.

Orthodox-Easter-Bulgaria-Cover

Orthodox Easter Traditions and Greetings

It is customary among Orthodox Christians to greet one another during the Easter season with the Paschal greeting. The salutation begins with the phrase, “Christ ​is Risen!” The response is “Truly; He is Risen!” The phrase “Christos Anesti” (Greek for “Christ is Risen”) is also the title of a traditional Orthodox Easter hymn sung during Easter services in celebration of Jesus Christ’s resurrection.

In the Orthodox tradition, eggs are a symbol of new life. Early Christians used eggs to symbolize the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the regeneration of believers. At Easter, eggs are dyed red to represent the blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross for the redemption of all men.

greek-orthodox-easter

Eastern Orthodox Easter Foods

Greek Orthodox Christians traditionally break the Lenten fast after the midnight Resurrection Service. Customary foods are a lamb and Tsoureki Paschalino, a sweet Easter dessert bread.

Serbian Orthodox families traditionally begin the feasting after Easter Sunday services. They enjoy appetizers of smoked meats and cheeses, boiled eggs and red wine. The meal consists of chicken noodle or lamb vegetable soup followed by spit-roasted lamb.

Holy Saturday is a day of strict fasting for Russian Orthodox Christians, while families stay busy making preparations for the Easter meal. Usually, the Lenten fast is broken after the midnight mass with traditional Paskha Easter bread cake.

Orthodox-Easter-church-service

 

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patrickhenrycensored

Attorney General to skip Nadler’s Barrfitsuh

patrickhenrycensored

Anti semantic

Sylvia Avery

Ha, ha! Even better. Neat. Subtle yet eloquent.

Cuppa Covfefe

Mystery scansion…

Marica

Patrick! “Barrfitsuh” HAHAHAHAH!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Excellent word! Stealing…

patrickhenrycensored

The phc, Merry ‘M Webstir dictionary is free.

Marica

Thank you, ty, ty!! Man–Please let there really be a phc, Merry M Webstir dictionary… 😍😍 I bet if Judy was around…She could create one!!!! I miss Judy!

patrickhenrycensored

Internet Archives are forever.
Been writing that dictionary for many years………

Marica

Yes you have!!!😘🤗

Sylvia Avery

O.M.G. I love it!

phoenixRising

I find it curious to say the least, that the same time we learn Pitcock is being investigated, POTUS is having a Rally in WISCONSIN…

GA/FL

Scott Walker was present and praised – but NOT Paul Ryan!
I find that extremely interesting.

GA/FL

Paul Disgrace Ryan’s name was not even mentioned.

wolfmoon1776

Bet some “interesting” is coming very soon on that boy. That BOY.

patrickhenrycensored

Trump ran lil Paulie, the Chamber Of Coerced shill; out of the game.

Sylvia Avery

Yes, he did. Just one of MANY wonderful things PDJT has done for use.
Thumbs up for Chamber of Coerced!

phoenixRising

In the summer of 2016, Robert Hannigan, head of Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) traveled to Washington D.C. to meet with then-CIA Head John Brennan regarding alleged communications between the Trump Campaign and Moscow.
That summer, GCHQ’s then head, Robert Hannigan, flew to the US to personally brief CIA chief John Brennan. The matter was deemed so important that it was handled at “director level”, face-to-face between the two agency chiefs.
The meeting between Hannigan and Brennan appears somewhat…unusual.
The US and the UK are two of the so-called Five Eyes — along with Canada, Australia and New Zealand — that share a broad range of intelligence through a formalized alliance.
The GCHQ is responsible for Britain’s Signals Intelligence.
The NSA is responsible for the United States’ Signals Intelligence.
Hannigan’s U.S. counterpart was not CIA Director Brennan.
Hannigan’s U.S. counterpart was NSA Director Mike Rogers.

Continued:
https://themarketswork.com/2018/04/09/john-brennans-role-in-the-fbis-trump-russia-investigation/

GA/FL

PR – please post this on Wolfie’s new thread – covering this very topic!

phoenixRising

Done…
Thanks for the h/up ……..

GA/FL

Quite the coincidence!

patrickhenrycensored

Part of the UK, make America muslim plan……………………

phoenixRising

Exactly Patrick………..

Sylvia Avery

So true. So grim. SO pisses me off.

Cuppa Covfefe

Ay-Hab the Ay-Rab…

phoenixRising
Sylvia Avery

Thanks pR!

patrickhenrycensored

‘Muh Russia?’
Podesta got phished surfing Russian porn.
And all the Deep State bullshit will never put the democrat perverts back together again.

patrickhenrycensored

Paprika (replied)
“And there we are! The onion layers have finally all been peeled back with many tears and much angst expended. And what do we have? ‘Possesseda” went fishing for Russian little girl anchovy porn and got caught up in a political caviar phishing net! “Surfing USA…political style…with stinky fish and fool’s gold for all ! No red herrings here–no sir–we'[re just Bobbing for Mueller horse apples!”

Cuppa Covfefe

Help me rauncha, help help me rauncha….
Hey, ghou’ld lookin’, whatcha got (spirit) cookin’,
How ’bout cooking somethin’ up for me…
(and, as the morning sun rises on Southwest England, wherever Maddie disappeared, to the tune from Oliver),
Who will buy,
These fresh young pizzas,
Two-ooo blooms for a penny….
Any pizza today, mi-es-tress….
(in the distance) Ripe, hot dogs and hens,
Ripe, hot dogs and hens…
Who wil buy, this horrid debacle,
Such a crime, I never did see…
(apologies to Lionel Bart, Dickens, and everyone else)…

scott467

“In the Orthodox tradition, eggs are a symbol of new life.”
_______________
This seems like an inherent contradiction, since I am not aware of any Scripture that either teaches this symbolism for eggs, or any example or command in Scripture that it should be observed… so how can it possibly be ‘orthodox’?
………………………………
Orthodox
adjective
1. of, relating to, or conforming to the approved form of any doctrine, philosophy, ideology, etc.
[my note: and the only approved form of doctrine is revealed in Scripture; anything else is of men, by definition]
2. of, relating to, or conforming to beliefs, attitudes, or modes of conduct that are generally approved.
[my note: again, the *only* approved form of doctrine is revealed in Scripture; anything else is of men, by definition]
3. customary or conventional, as a means or method; established.
[my note: in other words, traditions of men, which is, by definition, the opposite of ‘orthodox’]
4. sound or correct in opinion or doctrine, especially theological or religious doctrine.
[my note: sound doctrine can only be based on God’s Word; where is the teaching in Scripture about eggs and the observance of same?]
5. conforming to the Christian faith as represented in the creeds of the early church.
[my note: but Christian faith is not represented by the early church, or any other church, it is represented by the teaching which is found in the inspired Word of God.
We are not to conform ourselves or our practices to the example of early churches — do we forget that most of them were engaged in some kind of error, which many of the books of the New Testament (at least in part) specifically addressed?
Revelation was written in the mid to late 90s AD. That’s ‘early church’ era, and FIVE of the seven churches addressed directly by Christ in Revelation were in such grievous error that they were in danger of the Lord removing their candlesticks (see Revelation chapters 2 and 3). So what early churches did is not our Authority or example for sound doctrine — God’s Word is. What people in churches do unfortunately changes all the time, but God’s Word does not change.
As for ‘creeds’, where is the Authority in God’s Word for such a thing as a ‘creed’? The word ‘creed’ is not found anywhere in the entire Bible. Check for yourself: https://www.blueletterbible.org/
If a ‘creed’ says more than what God has said in His Word, does it not go beyond what God has said, without Authority?
If a ‘creed’ says less than what God’s Word says, does it not subtract from what God has said, without Authority?
And if a ‘creed’ says the same as God’s Word, is it not redundant and unnecessary, presuming to say better or to improve upon what God has already said?]
6. ( initial capital letter ) of, relating to, or designating the Eastern Church, especially the Greek Orthodox Church.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/orthodox
……………………………

phoenixRising

I think in this case Orthodox is modifer for word Church, which is omitted.
In the Orthodox (Church) tradition, eggs are ……….

scott467

“Early Christians used eggs to symbolize the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the regeneration of believers.”
__________________
By what Authority?
In other words, suppose we were in the early Christian times, and someone brought eggs and said ‘Look, these eggs represent and symbolize the resurrection of Christ and the regeneration of believers. Let’s start doing this every year!”
And then I simply asked “By what Authority are you making this connection, establishing this tradition, adding this symbolism to Christian belief and practice? Is it by your own Authority, or by someone else’s Authority, or is it by the Authority of God’s Word?
What would that person say?
What COULD he or she say?
A) it came to me in a dream last night (the church of ‘mysticism’ ?)
B) I just like eggs and so I thought this would be a good idea (the church of ‘I thought’ ?)
C) it would be fun for the kids (the church of ‘entertainment’ ?)
D) I saw pagans down the street using eggs to symbolize a fertility goddess… and rabbits too!
He or she could come up with all sorts of possible answers.
But “It says so right here in God’s Word, have a look” would not be one of them.
.
.
“At Easter, eggs are dyed red to represent the blood of Jesus that was shed on the cross for the redemption of all men.”
_________________
I never knew that. My grandparents, and then my Mom, used to dye eggs that same deep red-brown as in the photos above, using onion skins, if I remember correctly. Either before or after Easter, I don’t remember which.
Nobody ever explained why, and nobody asked.
It was just ‘tradition’…

scott467

Edit / correction: “D) I saw pagans down the street using eggs to symbolize a fertility goddess… and rabbits bunnies too!
They called them ‘pagan bunnies’, but I thought, you know… maybe ‘Easter bunny‘ would be better, you know… for us?
Is that so wrong?
(let me count the ways… 😁 )

scott467

I wasn’t trying to be callous!
I just fight this fight (and ones like it) so often, that adding a little humor and creativity helps to keep it interesting 😉

TheseTruths

The Christians of, say the first century, did not have the Bible as we think of it today. Teachings were handed down by the apostles according to what they had been taught. There was no book to go to to see if eggs could be used to represent life, and such a tradition is not dogma.
2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

scott467

“The Christians of, say the first century, did not have the Bible as we think of it today. Teachings were handed down by the apostles according to what they had been taught.”
________________
Not collected together into one bound volume, but they certainly had the individual letters and manuscripts, all of them, by the end of the 1st century, when at least John (who wrote down Revelation, by inspiration of God) was still alive to confirm them.
I know the teaching by some that (apparently) Christians were without God’s Word until some council of men in the 4th century gave their Imprimatur to what was ‘canon’, and what wasn’t. What I don’t know is how to square that with common sense.
Did no one obey the Gospel of Christ, and no one was saved, until the 4th century?
How did anyone know about Christ with any assurance, or Who He was, or what He taught, without access to the Scriptures?
What do YOU (or I) know about Christ, that we could know, WITHOUT access to the Scriptures?
What can ANYONE actually know about Christ today, besides what God has revealed in His Word?
Why should we think it was any different back then, whether a hundred years ago, or a thousand years ago, or 1,900+ years ago?
I know it’s easy to think early Christians were just backward people, or unsophisticated, or whatever, but that’s just a natural tendency people have toward anyone from earlier generations.
Paul, who wrote Colossians (by inspiration of God), is thought to have been martyred between 64AD and 68AD, so that is definitely the time of the early church.
Were the early church members not instructed to copy and share the letters and epistles with one another? Do we not have an example of this very activity preserved for us in God’s Word?
……………..
“And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.” (Colossians 4:16, KJV)
……………..
The word ‘Scripture’ is used 32 times in the New Testament, and “Scriptures” is used another 21 times, and that doesn’t include other ways of referring to the same thing, e.g., ‘Word of God’.
Jesus asks people what the Scriptures (the OT, obviously the NT had not yet been written) say, or what they think it means, e.g., ‘What is written in the Law? how readest thou?’ (Luke 10:26).
And Paul does the same: “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” (Romans 4:3, Galatians 4:30, etc.).
It is said that surviving letters by members of the early church quote the Scriptures so thoroughly, that nearly the entire New Testament can be pieced together from their writings alone. SOMEBODY was reading and quoting Scripture like mad… a LOT of somebodies…
.
What did Paul say about the Scriptures?
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” (2 Timothy 3:16, KJV, boldface emphasis mine)
Not some, not most, but all.
The Scriptures are clear and emphatic, that it is not the words or wisdom of men, but the Word of God.
“Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. ” (1 Corinthians 2:12-13, boldface emphasis mine)
.
“And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: [5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.” (1 Cor 2:4-5, boldface emphasis mine)
.
And again:
“But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. [12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11-12, boldface emphasis mine)
.
And here:
“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13, boldface emphasis mine)
.
Here:
“For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” (1 Cor 1:17, boldface emphasis mine)
.
And again here, this time John:
“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” (John 14:26)
.
And now Peter:
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 1:20-21, boldface emphasis mine)

TheseTruths

I am NOT saying that:
— Christians were without God’s word until the 4th century
— No one obeyed the Gospel or was saved until the 4th century
— Early Christians were backward people
“How did anyone know about Christ with any assurance, or Who He was, or what He taught, without access to the Scriptures?”
The very first Christians, the Apostles, knew about Christ because they knew Him personally. Other people besides the Apostles did, too. The people they taught knew about Christ because they were taught by people who knew Him personally. Estimates for when the four Gospels were written are in the 41-70-ish A.D. period. If Christ ascended in 33 A.D., how did people learn about him before the Gospels were written and distributed? By word of mouth and tradition.
People also studied Old Testament Scriptures, which are full of prophecy. Then, as the Gospels and epistles were written and became available, people had those Scriptures. But they did not have the Bible as we know it today in the first century. That doesn’t negate the Scripture they did have; it is merely a fact.
There is no contradiction in the verse I presented because I am not claiming that there were no Scriptures. And the verse does talk about traditions being taught by word of mouth, which you don’t address at all.
2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
What do you think is meant by “hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word…”?

scott467

“The very first Christians, the Apostles, knew about Christ because they knew Him personally.”
___________
Agreed.
.
“Other people besides the Apostles did, too. The people they taught knew about Christ because they were taught by people who knew Him personally.”
__________
Agreed. but that only goes so far, because without some kind of written account or speaking by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, can you imagine how convoluted and contradicting the the teaching would very rapidly become?
You can try an experiment for yourself. At a large gathering, whisper something short, maybe three sentences long, so someone, and tell them to pass it on. After it gets to the 20th or 30th person, ask that person to tell you what the original message was.
I think you will be surprised how corrupted your original message has become, unless you have already played this game before.
And the Gospel accounts, all of the teachings of Christ, are a whole lot more involved than just two or three sentences to keep straight.
We have the Scriptures today, and people can barely get through a chapter without finding something to dispute… can you imagine how it would be if we only had dueling oral raconteurs?
.
“Estimates for when the four Gospels were written are in the 41-70-ish A.D. period. If Christ ascended in 33 A.D., how did people learn about him before the Gospels were written and distributed? By word of mouth and tradition.”
______________
Maybe I just don’t understand what the word ‘tradition’ means, or the way it’s being used in this context.
To my thinking, ‘tradition’ is always going to run afoul of the written word, because most people don’t have the auditory equivalent of photographic memory. If a cop interviews a witness three times, there will almost always be small details that differ from each interview.
Some may be additional details that were forgotten before. Some may be imagined additions which didn’t actually happen. Some things will be accidental omissions. The witness strongly believes he is telling the whole truth each time, but each time, he tells it a little different, leaving out this, and embellishing (a little) that.
So for one example, take baptism. There are at least 9 accounts in the book of Acts along of Christian conversion, and every one of them ends in the waters of baptism:

scott467

[continued from last post, I accidentally hit a combination of keys and it posted before I was finished.]
So for one example, take baptism. There are at least 9 accounts in the book of Acts along of Christian conversion, and every one of them ends in the waters of baptism:
So for one example, take baptism. There are at least 9 accounts in the book of Acts along of Christian conversion, and every one of them ends in the waters of baptism:
Acts 2:38-41,
Acts 8:12-13,
Acts 8:35-38,
Acts 10:47-48,
Acts 16:14-15,
Acts 16:30-34,
Acts 18:8,
Acts 19:1-7,
Acts 22:16
There are many other accounts explaining that we are ‘buried in baptism’ (cf. Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12), etc.
So how does that doctrine, that ‘tradition’ go from being immersed (buried) in water (‘baptizo’ means ‘immersed’) to pouring some water on someone’s head?
And how did that corruption then devolve to sprinkling some drops of water on someone?
By whose Authority?
I mean, it seems important, that if God is going to provide a way of salvation, should we not accept His terms and conditions, i.e., do it His way, instead of our own way?
I have seen how this works first hand, with someone who was terminally ill, in the hospital, and wanted to obey the gospel, to be baptized for the remission of sins, to be saved.
The hospital ‘chaplain’ said no problem, we’ll get a blanket, soak it in water, and lay it over him.
I kid you not.
I asked him why would you do that?
He said because we can’t dunk him in a baptistry pool.
I said we don’t need a baptistry pool, tub large enough to immerse someone will do, and certainly a Hospital has such a device…
But where did you get the idea to get a blanket, make it wet, and lay it on top of someone as a way of baptizing them?
I appreciated his candor. He told me that he and the other ministers / pastors on the hospital rotation got together and decided it would just be easier that way…
I just looked at him, like ‘you’ve gotta be kidding me’. I’m getting a flashback to an old Keystone Kops scene where four police cars all crash into each other in the middle of a four-way intersection.
Where is the Authority for that, who said you could do that, who put you in charge, died and made you God? It was breathtaking, and yet at the same time, I could tell that he only meant well, he was only trying to help.
And that’s how it usually happens.
People think they know better, they’ll just do a little of this, or a little of that, God won’t mind, right?
We moved from the Hospital to Hospice.
At Hospice, they had a large therapeutic whirlpool that was big enough to immerse someone. The pastor on duty was a woman (not a good sign, there is no Authority in God’s Word for women to be pastors, or to have any Authority over men).
She was a kind woman, and I was confident she meant well, and I told her about the possibility that there might be a baptism, and if so, there might not be a lot of time. A person needs to be lucid, to understand what they’re doing, to confess Christ (which is why, in part, that there is no example or Authority for infant baptism in Scripture, because an infant can’t understand what’s going on, much less confess Christ, and besides all that, an infant is innocent, no understanding of right or wrong, so no sin — infant baptism is yet ANOTHER addition of doctrine without any Authority from God).
In order to be lucid, you have to be off (or at least between) your palliative-care pain medication. But you don’t want to go for several hours without that pain medication, because the pain is excruciating.
So I was trying to make arrangements to use the therapeutic whirlpool on short notice, if the opportunity presented itself, and the patient was willing to try.
She said there’s no need to do all that, I’ll just get a bucket and put some water in it, and he can sit on the side of the bed and put his feet in the bucket.
I started wondering if I was on Candid Camera, like Alan Fundt was going to jump out from behind a potted plant in the corner.
Where are people getting these ideas, taking it upon themselves to jury-rig God’s plan of salvation according to whatever seems right in their own eyes?
I wondered for a moment how many people she had done that to, thinking (believing) she was doing them a service. I sure hope God sees it that way, it’s His call, but I sure wouldn’t want to go around telling people things on my own Authority when it comes to matters of baptism or any other thing related to salvation.
The female pastor resisted the use of whirlpool. She thought it was a bad idea (she wasn’t a doctor, in truth, she wasn’t even Authorized to be a pastor).
I didn’t know if it would even be necessary, if the opportunity would present itself, so I ended the discussion politely and kept my powder dry.
A few days later, that man was lucid, he was a couple hours overdue for his next dose, but the pain wasn’t bad yet. He said he wanted to be baptized, if he could, if it was possible.
I’ll tell you what, I didn’t go looking around for that pastor lady, or to get anyone else’s permission. I called my pastor, and he said he would be there in 10 minutes. His presence wasn’t necessary, but I had never baptized anyone before, and there wasn’t going to be a second opportunity.
He arrived, we went to the whirlpool room, and my pastor filled the whirlpool tub while I went back to the patient’s room. The tub would need about 10 minutes to fill up enough for an adult to be submerged, and I was watching for that pastor lady to try to stop us at any moment.
My brother-in-law and I wheeled that man in his bed down to the whirlpool room, and we carefully lifted him out of the bed and into the whirlpool. The water was warm, it felt good to him, and he was completely alert.
My pastor took over, and when it was time, the man took a breath and held it as we lowered him under the water, and brought him right back up out of it again.
I wish you all could have seen the smile on that poor man’s face, when he came up out of the water.
We wrapped him in towels, and wheeled him back to his room, and changed him into some dry bedclothes. He was more alert than he had been in weeks. His speech aphasia was gone, his voice was back, speaking clearly and strongly, like there was nothing wrong with him at all. He didn’t want his pain medication. He had an hour with his family where he seemed like himself again, maybe for the last time, and he was happy, and he wanted them to be happy.
I’m getting a little carried away here with the good part, the point is, that man did it God’s way, according to His Word. And if he could do it, in his condition, then most people can.
So don’t listen to people who try to talk you into doing things that are not according to God’s Word. They usually (hopefully) mean well, but that doesn’t mean they’re right.
God is right.
If we do things His way, then we’ll be right, too.

TheseTruths

“Maybe I just don’t understand what the word ‘tradition’ means, or the way it’s being used in this context.”
A tradition is not an essential tenet of the Church. If someone does not have boiled eggs at Easter, it is no big deal because it is just a tradition that is not essential for salvation. Instead, it is something, as thinkthinkthink said, to help people grow in understanding of their faith.
“There are at least 9 accounts in the book of Acts along of Christian conversion, and every one of them ends in the waters of baptism…So how does that doctrine, that ‘tradition’ go from being immersed (buried) in water (‘baptizo’ means ‘immersed’) to pouring some water on someone’s head?”
I consider baptism to be more than a tradition since it is something we are commanded to do. And you are correct that it means to be immersed. As you know, many Protestant churches do practice immersion. So does the Orthodox Church.
The terminally ill man you mention was blessed to have you to help him. There are situations, however, where a person is too ill or infirm to be moved at all. They could not be immersed in anything, even a makeshift tub. In that case, God knows the intent of their heart and the intent of the clergyman to baptize the person, and the concept of “economia,” or a leniency, applies. The same could be said of the thief on the cross who was not baptized. It would also apply to a soldier on a battlefield and in other situations, though it is rare.


“Where is the Authority for that, who said you could do that, who put you in charge, died and made you God?”
Here is where the concept of Church tradition applies. One either believes that there were, and are, traditions that were passed down, or one believes that nothing can be done outside of what is written in Scripture (Sola Scriptura). It is clear where you’re coming from, and I do understand your position. Having said that, there are countless interpretations of Scripture, and that is why there are so many different denominations.
I know from experience the great skepticism and even animosity that some Protestants have toward the Catholic Church, and I do understand. Having said that, the Orthodox Church, highlighted in this article, is not the Catholic Church. The two split in 1054 over essential doctrines. I have found that a great deal of church history is ignored by some Protestants.
I’m not here to try to convince you of anything. Your faith is admirable. I am grateful that God has mercy on us and knows the intent of our hearts, and that faith in Him is paramount.

Cuppa Covfefe

Scott, remember Paul’s (and others’) admonitions about legalism.

scott467

“Scott, remember Paul’s (and others’) admonitions about legalism.”
______________
I remember, but what about my posts is legalistic?
I’m just applying basic logic and reason to what appear to be somewhat common misconceptions.

scott467

“There was no book to go to to see if eggs could be used to represent life, and such a tradition is not dogma.
2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version (KJV)
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”
____________________
Does the verse you quoted not contradict your own position?
“whether taught by word, or our epistle.” ?
What is an ‘epistle’?
………………..
Epistle
noun
1. a letter, especially a formal or didactic one; written communication.
2. (usually initial capital letter ) one of the apostolic letters in the New Testament.
………………..
Of course the apostles taught verbally, what should they have done, gone from town to town with tape over their mouths, and do pantomime or charades, while pointing to books?
Is God not perfect?
The Scriptures say He is.
Does God contradict Himself?
Did the Apostles contradict God, or the inspired Word of God?
Which is the higher Authority — an Apostle, or the Word of God?
We know, for just one example, that Peter was wrong (cf. Galatians 2:11).
Where in all of God’s Word is it revealed that God — or by extension, His Word — was wrong?
If ever there was a man who had ‘the mind of Christ’ (1 Cor 2:16) in teaching it was Paul. So if there was ever a time when you could sit back, relax, not bother to check, but just take a mortal man’s word for something in matters of God, it would have been when listening to Paul, yes?
And yet we know, for another example, that the Bereans did not simply take Paul’s word, but they checked what Paul taught, against what?
WHAT did they use, to verify that what Paul taught them was true?
………………………
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” (Acts 17:11)
………………………
No doubt Christian doctrine was taught orally, and always has been — but how do you verify that what is being taught orally by MEN is actually true and so?
If there is any OTHER way to do it, except to compare what (fallible) men say to what God has said in His Word, what way would that be?
Is the written Word of God not always the superior Authority to any words man might say — unless that man is claiming (and can prove, with signs and wonders, as the Apostles did!) that he is speaking orally by inspiration of God?

scott467

““There was no book to go to to see if eggs could be used to represent life, and such a tradition is not dogma.”
_________________
Suppose, for sake of argument, that there was no book they could go to.
Then WHY would anyone accept this new doctrine or agree to it?
Just because?
If that’s the standard, then why don’t they agree to and accept wearing ass-less chaps after the fashion and tradition of San Fransisco gay pride parades — or any OTHER thing?
There has to be an Authority, someone or some thing which has determined what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, yes?
Is that Someone not God?
Is His Word not that Authority?
If the Scriptures are silent on some subject, does that give permission or mean it is acceptable?
I can’t find any prohibition (or even any mention) of ass-less chaps in God’s Word… so does the silence of the Scriptures on that subject mean it’s fine for a Christian to dress that way for worship services… or ANYWHERE else?
In other words, the question still remains: “By what Authority do you DO this thing?”
And if it is without Authority, then why does one do it?
It could hardly be a more basic question.
What is the answer?

TheseTruths

“Then WHY would anyone accept this new doctrine or agree to it?”
We are not talking about a doctrine, but a tradition.

Harry Lime

Interesting article and videos about the US Navy’s change in protocol in handling of UFO sightings…with a focus on the USS Nimitz Carrier Battle Group’s encounter in 2004 with a large object just under the surface of the Pacific ocean and a fleet of physics defying “Tic Tac” shaped flying objects in the same location.
Is bringing back the possibility of extraterrestrial UFO’s just a cover for masking our own advanced technology? And if so, where did we acquire such advanced technology? Interesting analysis…
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27666/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-ufos-and-department-of-defense

phoenixRising

https://twitter.com/Jordan_Sather_/status/1122202941887143936
https://twitter.com/Jordan_Sather_/status/1122523046210760706
———————
Personally? I think there needs to be disclosure… the Cabal has lied about so much. Watch the Cabal try to us this topic as a way to change the narrative when (big) arrests start.

Cuppa Covfefe

It could well be that the Klintoons sold ultra-advance tech to various other parties (read: Chicoms and Russkies), and now we have to watch out and see if the bad guys have actually made it to production…

Marica

Tru Dope at it again!!! Did you all see this?!!!

phoenixRising

Perhaps if he uncrossed his legs, his brain would work (a little better)

patrickhenrycensored

++++++++

patrickhenrycensored

This blog sends the multiple + signs to spam.
But I send them anyway.

phoenixRising

Thank you Patrick…
A multiple + sign reply from you means a lot !!!

patrickhenrycensored

You deserve them pR.
You put the Gem, in Gemini.

Marica

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Marica

Great comment T3!!! (and beautiful post BTW) It’s funny you Just In Tru Dope to Obummer… I was discussing this with my sister today (h/t to Marica’s sister who told me about this article at GW) I said “what is wrong with Canada?–Wait–We elected Obummer TWICE!”
Soviet mole ASSIGNED–is an excellent answer!

phoenixRising

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Sylvia Avery

Me likey very much!

phoenixRising

GA/FL

Estimated completion date for the El Paso and Yuma sections of wall – October 2020

GA/FL

President Trump said last night they will finish over 400 miles of wall by the end of 2020!
Currently – the Army Corps is prequalifying contractors for 8 billion in contracts.
https://www.constructiondive.com/news/military-prequalifying-contractors-8b-border-wall-construction/553424/

http://dailytorch.com/2019/04/450-miles-of-wall-by-end-of-2020-army-corps-reports-to-president-trump/
“Around Dec. 2020, the total amount of money we will have put in the ground in the last couple of years will be about 450 miles. That’s probably about $8 billion, in total about 33 projects.”
Hear that – Ms. Coulter?

phoenixRising

Yeeeaaaayyyy !
I found this in comments to The Epoch Times tweet I posted above.
GA/FL do you know anything about this stretch of border he is talking about ?

GA/FL

I don’t know anything about O’Rourke and his family.

GA/FL

There is a decades old law that says nothing can be built within a certain distance of the border. That was to make sure a wall could be built someday if needed.

phoenixRising

That’s good to know……..
wrt O’Rourke’s father-in-law, William D. Sanders, aka the Warren Buffet of real estate, Sanders’s portfolio is valued at about $20 billion.
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/media-blackout-meet-robert-francis-beto-orourkes-billionaire-father-in-law/
——————————–
According to the brochure, “Borderplex has been obtaining positions in central El Paso real estate primarily through William D. Sanders, Chris Kleberg and Meyer Marcus.”
Sanders runs Verde Realty, which among other services develops and operates corporate facilities along the U.S.-Mexico border. Sanders, widely hailed as an expert in the use of real estate investment trusts, is the founding force behind the Borderplex Trust and serves as a director.
http://www.elpasoinc.com/news/reit-buys-wells-fargo-building-for-m/article_87714dbf-3428-5f89-913d-cf241e74a930.html

GA/FL

Interesting point about our feisty new Attorney General saying he may not answer a subpoena due to the process/rules currently in place.

Why DOES Nadler want to interview/interrogate Barr and not Mueller?

phoenixRising

Content of testimony is irrelevant…
#1 Barr was just messin’ w/ Jerry when he said he would appear.
#2 If Eric Holder can blow off a subpoena to testify then he has set the standard.
#3 House subpoenas mean nothing, ultimate enforcement is up to the DoJ.
#4 Nadler probably realized, with help from someone with a brain, that Mueller would be at risk of perjury
I could go on, but I don’t find it interesting – just more kabuki theatre from Nadler… who really wants POTUS’ documents he thinks might be involved.

GA/FL

As we have seen since Benghazi and the IRS scandals, Congressional investigations/subpoenas/testimony don’t amount to a hill of beans.

phoenixRising

Exactly…
And during this Administration… McCabe blew off a subpoena TWICE I think, before finally appearing.

GA/FL

Lying to Congress doesn’t matter a hill of beans either. Holder did it. Hillary did it. So did Blasey-Ford.

Sylvia Avery

Ramses Goat a/k/a Harold Finch has an interesting thread.
Looks like the odious Ben Rhodes may need one of those thousand dollar an hour Washington lawyers when his number comes up. Add him to the perp walk list.

amwick

GA/FL

85% of Obama’s warrantless surveillance searches were illegal: P 82 – https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf

phoenixRising

I’m speechless…

amwick

I remember reading about this. TY….

phoenixRising
phoenixRising

We can’t move forward with someone we have no confidence in…
Glad this is happening now…

GA/FL

Currently, the facility has only 40 prisoners, but in the past held as many as 600 prisoners.
Interestingly, President Trump has been building and enlarging Gitmo facilities to the tune of 200 Million $$$ – despite the reduced number of detainees.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/03/28/when-it-comes-guantanamo-trump-truly-builder-chief.html
Make that 500 million:
https://www.constructiondive.com/news/trump-plans-500m-spend-on-guantanamo-bay-construction/503110/
Must have a plan.

phoenixRising
phoenixRising

Charlie Kirk is on top of things… and he’s only 25…

Cuppa Covfefe

Lustige Blätter, i.e. funny pages or comics…
They’re gonna find out that the joke’s on them…

phoenixRising

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patrickhenrycensored

Trump pulled down the covers and showed everybody who’s sleeping together in the dirty deep state bed.

phoenixRising

Excellent analogy Patrick…
Would make a great meme !!!

patrickhenrycensored

Give it a day or two.
Cartoonists sometimes this way come……………..

Cuppa Covfefe

There were 150 in the bed and the little one said,
“Roll over, roll over”,
There were 149 in the bed and the little one said……….

Deplorable Patriot

Ooh. Sleeping together…. Some of those swamp creatures shouldn’t be sleeping with anyone else.

ForGodandCountry

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Marica
patrickhenrycensored

13th Letter of the alphabet.
Halfway point………………………..?

Marica

Excellent and quick Patrick!! I was just counting on my fingers the 13th letter…
Halfway Point is a great thought!!!

patrickhenrycensored

You have thirteen fingers?

patrickhenrycensored

The letter M – symbolism. It is believed that the letter M is the most sacred: masculine and feminine agree in it, it represents the symbol of water. The letter gives the origin to all times, creates the beginning of the natural and the natural forms of existence.

Marica

🤣🤣🤣 My secret weapon!🙃

phoenixRising

Water… told you it was an upside down W 😉
“But let justice roll on like many waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing river.”
Amos 5:24
Justice is comin’ – says Rudy

Marica

I like it!!

phoenixRising

First letter of your name? 😉
An upside down W ?

Marica

Phoenix!!! Rudy was sending me a coded message!! Activate Marica? Aw hell…🤣🤣🤣

Cuppa Covfefe

Yeah. Put down the whiskey sour, swig some Covfefe, and GO!!! 🙂

Marica

Cuppa!! But where do I go?!!!🤣

ForGodandCountry

Speculation….
QUOTE:
“M is a fictional character in Ian Fleming’s James Bond book and film series; the character is the Head of the Secret Intelligence Service—also known as MI6—and is Bond’s superior.”
Mayor G might be referencing…
Robert Hannigan, head of Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) 2014-2017

Marica

OH FG&C— That’s an excellent speculation!!! Most Excellent!

ForGodandCountry

phoenixRising wrote:
April 28, 2019 at 16:18
In the summer of 2016, Robert Hannigan, head of Britain’s Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) traveled to Washington D.C. to meet with then-CIA Head John Brennan regarding alleged communications between the Trump Campaign and Moscow.
That summer, GCHQ’s then head, Robert Hannigan, flew to the US to personally brief CIA chief John Brennan. The matter was deemed so important that it was handled at “director level”, face-to-face between the two agency chiefs.
The meeting between Hannigan and Brennan appears somewhat…unusual.
The US and the UK are two of the so-called Five Eyes — along with Canada, Australia and New Zealand — that share a broad range of intelligence through a formalized alliance.
The GCHQ is responsible for Britain’s Signals Intelligence.
The NSA is responsible for the United States’ Signals Intelligence.
Hannigan’s U.S. counterpart was not CIA Director Brennan.
Hannigan’s U.S. counterpart was NSA Director Mike Rogers.
Continued:
https://themarketswork.com/2018/04/09/john-brennans-role-in-the-fbis-trump-russia-investigation/

Marica

THis is making Wolfies Post today extremely relevant!!!!

phoenixRising

Love it G&C !!!!!!!!!!!

wheatietoo

In Roman Numerals…
M = 1000
I dunno what Rudy meant there…just throwing that in.
😀

Marica

ForGodandCountry

Interesting tweet by a known swamp dweller and CoC eunuch.

Marica

Trying to get on the “white hat side” with one tweet?…

ForGodandCountry

Kinda like Lindsey Graham, who is part of the same corrupt bunch?

Marica

Ms Lyndsey was/is corrupt–but somehow is going to play solidly in to helping–ties were cut when McStain was executed..er died…😳

ForGodandCountry

I wish that were true, but….
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/04/28/listen-carefully-senator-lindsey-graham-outlines-deep-state-exit/
Graham is dirty, just like his bbf McCain.

Marica

careful who you quote FG&C…😏🤔

wheatietoo

Lindsey wants to get reelected next year.
Any help we get from him…will have to happen before that, because after he gets reelected he may very well go back to his old tricks.

Marica

I have a hard time holding grudge with Lyndsey after his Kavanaugh courage… But he is in the same boat as McTurtle—Mitch is great on Judges…and shaky on Trump…

Marica

Marine One landing with Washington Memorial in background brings cold chills and watery eyes!

wheatietoo

It carries Precious Cargo.
😌🙏

Marica

Yes Wheatie!! SO very Precious!! 🙏🙏🙏