H/T TheseTruths
I do not have a twitter or X or Truth or Facebook accounts so I am leaving it to the rest of you to bring the juicy tidbits and funny memes to this thread. -GC
TRUMP ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT PART #3
My prompting for this article is a comment by, Wolfie, a couple of Dr Chris Martenson videos and the Clay Higgins report.
I am first going to start with a quote from Lame Cherry (H/T Tonawanda) since she says what I am thinking. (And I can not type 🙄)
…The major first red flag in this is that the Secret Service NEVER deploys counter sniper teams to former Presidents or events they are involved in. Considering the Trump Campaign was screaming for protection and denied.We now have a reality that although denied protection, or the first time in history counter sniper teams were deployed to Butler.We might as well get the CIA conspiracy charge focused on this, 👉because the logic is, SS knew a patsy was going to be in Butler and they wanted this person dead, or persons dead.…
So what was the excuse for the deployment of counter sniper teams?
Iranian Plot to Assassinate Trump Uncovered — medium.com›@travscott98
Protection for Donald Trump was heightened several weeks ago after U.S. authorities uncovered an Iranian plot to assassinate him, according to national security officials.
AND:
Trump security boosted weeks ago over Iran plot to kill him — yahoo.com
Protection for Donald Trump was boosted several weeks ago after US authorities learned of an Iranian plot to kill him, according to national security officials.
Funny how both of those articles now go to:
Hmmm… the page you’re looking for isn’t here.
However the Intel Community’s mouth piece, CNN now has:
Exclusive: Secret Service ramped up security after intel of Iran plot to assassinate Trump; no known connection to shooting — 2024/07/16
US authorities obtained intelligence from a human source in recent weeks on a plot by Iran to try to assassinate Donald Trump, a development that led to the Secret Service increasing security around the former president, multiple people briefed on the matter told CNN.
There’s no indication that Thomas Matthew Crooks, the would-be assassin who attempted to kill the former president on Saturday, was connected to the plot, the sources said.
The existence of the intelligence threat from a hostile foreign intelligence agency — and the enhanced security for Trump — raises new questions about the security lapses at the Saturday rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, and how a 20-year-old man managed to access a nearby rooftop to fire shots that injured the former president….
…the official told CNN. “NSC directly contacted USSS at a senior level to be absolutely sure they continued to track the latest reporting. USSS shared this information with the detail lead, and the Trump campaign was made aware of an evolving threat. In response to the increased threat, Secret Service surged resources and assets for the protection of former President Trump. All of this was in advance of Saturday.”
So there is ‘THE EXCUSE’
Iran denies plot against Trump, after US reports unspecified threat
[From Stars & Stripes]
Niha Masih — The Washington Post • July 18, 2024
Iran on Wednesday denied any involvement in the recent assassination attempt on former president Donald Trump at a Pennsylvania rally, while also rejecting allegations that it had any “intention for such an action.”
The Washington Post reported Tuesday that the Biden administration had informed the Secret Service of an unspecified threat to Trump from Iran before the July 13 campaign rally. U.S. officials said they believe the attack on the rally, where one attendee was killed and two were critically injured, and where Trump said he was shot in the ear, was unrelated to any Iranian effort.
In a statement, Foreign Ministry spokesman Nasser Kanaani said Iran “strongly rejects any involvement in the recent armed attack on Trump or claims about Iran’s intention for such an action, considering such allegations to have malicious political motives and objectives.”….
Seems the Iranians are NOT interested in taking the Rap for the US Intel Community. 😆 I guess they DO NOT want Big Bad Trump mad at them.
However do not forget: May. 27, 2022 UPDATE: New Documents Confirm Former Obama Officials Including John Kerry Were Meeting Secretly with Iranian Officials During Trump Administration — Gateway Pundit
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WHO WAS THE ‘SS’ AGENT IN CHARGE OF THE BUTLER FIASCO?
For this I am going to go to Chris Martenson‘s The Mystery Of The Blood In The Bathroom
There are a ton of good comments. This photo was in one of them:
That rifle does not look like it took a bullet. – GC
KnitKnotKnow
This was the SS walkthrough prep on the venue grounds before the rally.
Bald guy is Tim Burke.
So the women mentioned in the article could be 2 of 3 seen here
Commenter
The woman in the middle with grey shirt is the SS agent on the Trump stage who ducked, and then could not holster her gun – she’s without sunglasses here, but clear from body type, age, hair. I recall reading somewhere that she was the site agent for Butler, but not seeing any evidence.
👉The man on left with green shirt looks like the brick-colored pants/black polo who climbed on the roof at 7:01:36 of Grassley video 3. If Nick Menster was responsible along with Tim Burke, and given they are on the pre-site review, he may be this Nick Menster.
A bit out of place, but a new article on ZeroHedge 2 – pretty long – about Trump’s Secret Service detail and July 13 has some good tidbits.Here is one:
” ** The top supervisors who had to sign off on the security plan for the Butler rally are
Tim Burke, special agent in charge of the Secret Service’s Pittsburgh Field Office, and
Nick Menster, assistant special agent in charge of the Trump detail.”
👉“Burke is a friend of Rowe’s from the time they both served on a counter-assault team together early in their careers. Some critics within the Secret Service community question whether their close ties are impacting Rowe’s decision not to fire Burke or anyone else in the Pittsburgh Field Office.”
The article states that the position of site agent rotates, the woman who was site agent at Butler rally had little experience, and is in Ron Rowe’s crosshairs for scapegoating.
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IS THERE A SECOND SHOOTER?
Another run at it with more video provided to Dr. Martenson. I still see it the same way. The deep state tried to assassinate PDT with the first three shots and missed. Patsy dies as cover for the lame lone wolf explanation.
Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy
Reply to TradeBait2
Excellent video. I like the “shooter in the roof” theory – needs to be considered strongly – and it goes well with the purchase history of the company, too.
The following comments are all coming from: The Mystery Of The Blood In The Bathroom by Chris Martenson
There are 190 replies with an estimated read time of 49 minutes.
GN = Greg Nicoll one of the snipers in AGR bldg 6
MacD
I just noticed that apparently we do have a name for the sniper who left early – Jason Woods
My question remains, however: besides the text message saying he was leaving, what proof do we have that he actually left at that time? And why do we have that text message at all? Why was that available/leaked very early on? Misdirection?
MacD
Maybe the reason that GN was so eager to get back into the building ahead of the other people (as seen on the cop car dash cam) was to “help” lead the room checking operation. “Yes sir, I just checked that room – all clear there …”
AlaskanSqueeze hippysteve
Game of CLUE any one ? This is pure speculation. If there was a second shooter.
It was Greg Nicoll in the second floor window. With the AR15.
Greg, was left alone while his partner (Coke?) went to look for Crooks.
A very calm looking Greg is seen leaving the AGR main entrance (And getting locked out) less than two minutes after the shooting.
Greg’s story is he went down stairs to let his buddy back in after he got locked out.
Greg was VERY keen to be the first one back in the building.
The AR15 which was used for shots 4 thru 8 was snuck out of the main entrance by two team members. [There is much discussion about a Halligan breaching tool vs a rifle. –GC]
Finally… Greg just looks guilty… as my Gran would say… “His eyes are too close together !” LOL
[At this point I am going to give up trying to get the multi-paragraph quotation working correctly. This is very long, and it takes way too much time! -GC]
gfgftt5d0q
In the most critical moment of a critical event you leave your post and get locked out.
Would you:
A. Calmly stand there and calmly walk away or
B. Shout “Oh, *uck!” and put your hands up in frustration, radio you are locked out, pound on the door if someone were inside to get them to open door.
Very suspect
P.S. My father says the same thing (eyes too close together).
VegasPatriot
The story did turn out to be true. You just have to look at it from a slightly different perspective.
The Abandonment Of Posts In The Overwatch Building Is Difficult To Accept Public News & Current Events
The story about the counter-sniper leaving his post to go look for Crooks, then getting locked out, came from this X post by Benny Johnson. Johnson stated that it came from “a first-hand source of highest credentials.” Well, it turns out the story was mostly true, the timing involved was just a little off. Greg did leave the building to look for Crooks, albeit close to 2 minutes after shots were fired. He did get locked out of the building, and it appears someone let him back in along with other…
The Abandonment Of Posts In The Overwatch Building Is Difficult To Accept Public News & Current Events
So why did the source leak the story? Was it the cover story he heard from Greg or the other counter-sniper, and knew it to be misleading because the source was one of the LEOs at the Building 6 entrance and wanted the truth to be known by alerting the public of what to watch for? That’s my point. Why was that misleading story leaked in the first place?
Sgt Raven
As for the keys/card. One of the bodycam videos shows someone getting a big set of keys with a white card and AGR sharpie written on it from the glove box of a PoPo car.
This is the photo he is talking about.
BigTim
Intolerance:
but people come out of that building and so far no one has reported about hearing anything coming from inside the building. there was no reports of smoke or anything. so this supposed 2nd shooter was somehow never seen in or out of the building, never heard, and even perfectly accounted for police bodycams, spectators with smartphones, etc. or maybe it’s like that movie Inside Man, he dug a hole in the wall and he walked out of the building a few days later lol
PhaseFive:
The building and all rooms were sure to be checked at some point by officers. So I do not think the 2nd shooter would rely on a locked door to keep his setup a secret. Thus the above ceiling option.
We don’t have a great inventory of who was in the AGR 6 building during the shooting, but from memory here’s what I can piece together.
- Videos from the crowd on the west fairly conclusively show nobody entering/exiting the west door.
- Videos from the car dash cam on the east, show only Greg Nicols coming out 2 minutes after the shooting. It’s an odd location for him to be, and an odd time for him to exit that location. He could have been standing guard
Let’s not forget the huge gap of unaccounted for time (something like 6 minutes from 6:06 to 6:12, where one or both left their post and we are relying on their statements.
I could theorize and speculate that GN and his partner established a secretive spot and snipers nest above the drop ceiling on AGR6 facing South, looking thru a wall vent. GN would stand guard, and it would take perhaps a minute or so for his team-mate to get down from the shooting position after 1-3 shots.
Evidence to support this:
- Absurd cover stories for both of them.
- No videos so far of GN searching outside for Crooks as claimed.
- Blood in bathroom has yet to be convincingly explained, could have been GN’s partner getting injured getting down from false ceiling hiding spot.
- We have radio witness report of someone seen in a window. While vague it would likely have been a south facing AGR#6 window, and could have been GN or his partner looking out from an interior room to check the status.
- Some audio analysis and calculations support this location due to sound and calculated distances.
- We have yet to know GN’s partners name, who was bleeding in the bathroom, any good interior walkthru or pictures of the building, or many other crucial facts.
Extra credit prediction:
I predict AGR6 mysteriously burns down and some of the members of these security teams mysteriously die off in the near future.
Commenter
It may have been a location above a window, but the possibility of officers checking one of those rooms does not disqualify them as good options for a second shooter, if it’s one of the BC ESUs, as hypothesized by some.
It’s a reasonable assumption that the two BC ESUs were the only people in AGR 6. Having set up, the ESU can shoot 1-3 and leave the room with the rifle (assuming a 5.56 round like Crooks’) and put it back in the the 2nd floor over-watch window – there is no physical hiding needed, if the ESU uses the same rifle for over-watch as for shooting at Trump. The “second-shooter rifle” would be hidden in its identity as a legitimate ESU/SWAT rifle at the over-watch window.
This trip up to 2nd floor to put back the rifle would take 20 seconds.
We saw the LEOs entering AGR6 only 6:15:28, about four minutes after the shots.
20 seconds versus 240 seconds – now this is in hindsight, but an ESU as a second shooter in one of those rooms should be pretty confident that it would take much more than 20 seconds for LEOs to notice the shooting, recognize origin, run over, and enter AGR 6. Very low risk. He’d just need a bag or something over his rifle to capture most of the powder smoke and smell in that room.
VegasPatriot
The 3rd shot was fired at 18:11:33. Greg Nicol exited AGR 6 at 18:13:24. So far he is the only one to be confirmed inside the building when shots were fired. The door gets opened back up at 18:15:23. Therefore, if a second shooter fired shots 1-3 from AGR 6, he would have had about 4 minutes to exit his nest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is a discussion among the commenters at Peak Prosperity about a possible second shooter being in the 2nd story AGR 6 Counter sniper nest or in the rafters above. I am not going to try to nest these comments. Each commenter is separated by [….] within that comment are quotes from other commenters that are indented.
This is a photo of the interior of the AGR building showing the dropped ceiling.
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Intolerance
but on the car dash cam we can hear all 8 shots, they’re all the same, just the last 5 are much faster. if someone was inside then we would hear a major difference.
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BigTim
While I agree that the 8 shots sound the same from the car dashcam, the explanation is plainly obvious. Cars are insulated for sound, muffling the outside world to a large degree (engine noise, sirens, road noise, gun shots, etc.). This is the only video to my knowledge that the 8 shots sound similar.
Intolerance
Okay but we hear all 8 shots on multiple sources around the building. And suppressed weapons don’t leave zero trace behind, so if someone was shooting from the inside, they had to have gone above and beyond on their gear and set up inside of wherever they were hiding for there to be no trace of them visually or audibly. if they were near a vent or a window, someone surely would’ve been able to see smoke? cops clearing rooms would’ve reported smell of gun powder left behind.
As a structural builder mentioned on this forum recently the building probably has large steel trusses in the 5 or so feet above the drop ceiling which would theoretically create a cavity. If so, a clever person or team could lay planks across those trusses in which to lay prone and take shots from a concealed wall vent or other surreptitious design. It’s not far fetched, in fact it’s a reasonable scenario. In the real world, the Malvo assassin laid prone in the trunk of a sedan and fired out thru a hole above the trunk license plate.
I have argued that it would be possible for someone outside to see a flash of light but there would be ways to mitigate that, especially if one sits a good distance back from the opening. As far as “smelling or seeing smoke,” we’re talking 3 shots from under the roof where 5 shots were taken. Any unlikely observed or smelled gunpowder residue would be masked by the shots fired just above the location. I don’t think anyone would think twice searching inside, if they smelled gunfire.
See smoke? Lol. Have you ever fired a AR15? Three shots isn’t producing much “smoke.” It’s not like a raging camp fire.
If concealed well enough and a poor search conducted (steered away by the powers that be who orchestrated it) then the snipers nest could be disassembled in the following hours or days without notice especially as they controlled the entire crime scene…
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Commenter
The recordings outside the police I think have shots 1-3 all sound differently than shots 4-8. They are different in the pace, in the echo, in the spectrogram (= qualitatively to our ears), and even in the snick-boom delay.
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Commenter
Intolerance
but people come out of that building and so far no one has reported about hearing anything coming from inside the building.
Yes, people come out, but much after the shooting. And I believe those people entered after the shooting as well.
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Intolerance
BigTim
Cars are insulated for sound, muffling the outside world to a large degree (engine noise, sirens, road noise, gun shots, etc.).
Gunshots from a rifle coming from inside of a building and outside of a building would be vastly different.
Also if this 2nd shooter now shot from the inside of the building, wouldn’t someone have reported that, or noticed the un-suppressed weapon? Wouldn’t all those cops have been more cautious around the windows instead of just running by without a care in the world?
I get you want to shit on me and prove me wrong every time you comment, but you effectively made your own point make no sense at all.
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BigTim
Intolerance
Gunshots from a rifle coming from inside of a building and outside of a building would be vastly different.
I think you’re simply wrong. Cars muffle gunshots and other noises significantly.
To illustrate my point here’s a safe-for-viewing news broadcast. Cop and suspect get into a gunfight on the side of the freeway. Cop has a presumably 9mm handgun, suspect has a AR or AK longgun. These would normally sound radically different but from the dashcam recording they are indecipherable meaning I cannot audibly tell which is which.
[2 min video]
Intolerance
I get you want to shit on me and prove me wrong every time you comment, but you effectively made your own point make no sense at all.
Has zero to do with you. Don’t take it so personal. I have a level of knowledge in some areas and a background that aids in my analysis and just trying to keep this discussion reasonable and factual as best as possible. If and when I agree with you I’ll gladly say so. Thus far I largely have disagreed however.
Intolerance
Also if this 2nd shooter now shot from the inside of the building, wouldn’t someone have reported that, or noticed the un-suppressed weapon? Wouldn’t all those cops have been more cautious around the windows instead of just running by without a care in the world?
Notice several different cops point their guns at windows, duck to go under windows, do not stand in front of the windows, etc. There were reports and uncertainty about a suspicious man in a window. See CMartensons video from today 8/13. I have also posted about it. It caused a large armed team at about 6:15 to storm and clear ARG #6.
It is speculatively but entirely reasonable for a 2-person team to build a snipers nest in the hollow cavity above a S. facing room, and within the 6+ minute period unaccounted for from 6:06pm to 6:13pm, infiltrate a man to the snipers nest whilst another stands guard at the door, aim, fire 3 shots, exfiltrate, hide suppressed weapon or return it to it’s duty position. IF there was nobody else in the building and all eyes outside were on Crooks then people would likely be drawn to and conclude Crooks was the shooter.
I will repeat from what I said above, that GN’s story is a farse and implausible, we still don’t know who his partner was, why they left thier post for 6+ minutes, definitively whose blood is in the bathroom, why GN and partner were not at their post to stop Crooks or there in the aftermath, who shot Crooks and with what weapon, the ballistics and shell case testing of all 8 shots to match with the barrel rifling and extractor and firing pin, etc.
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Commenter
I’m gonna make a bold prediction: The so far unknown BC ESU/SWAT sniper will be reported as having committed suicide or had an intoxicated accident.
If this comes to pass, we can surmise he was the second shooter who knew too much and had to be suicided or accidented by TPTB
[I certainly agree with this! We have seen such ‘Clean-up’ after the Wiener laptop, Los Vegas, and Jan-6th. — GC]
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Intolerance
As a structural builder mentioned on this forum recently the building probably has large steel trusses in the 5 or so feet above the drop ceiling which would theoretically create a cavity. If so, a clever person or team could lay planks across those trusses in which to lay prone and take shots from a concealed wall vent or other surreptitious design. It’s not far fetched, in fact it’s a reasonable scenario. In the real world, the Malvo assassin laid prone in the trunk of a sedan and fired out thru a hole above the trunk license plate.
Did the shots come from inside the building or not? First you’re telling me shots are muffled, now this person could have been completely undetectable. Whatever. Either way, 8 shots were fired outside the building, that much is clear to me.
Any unlikely observed or smelled gunpowder residue would be masked by the shots fired just above the location.
How would smell of gunpowder on a rooftop mask the smell inside of the building?
I don’t think anyone would think twice searching inside, if they smelled gunfire.
What makes you say that? Why would officers clearing the building not think twice smelling fresh gunpowder inside of the building??
See smoke? Lol. Have you ever fired a AR15? Three shots isn’t producing much “smoke.” It’s not like a raging camp fire.
Yes I have. I’ve also seen different kinds of suppressors fired though that weapon system.
Some suppressors do get gassy, they expel smoke outwards. You guys are telling me there is a 2nd mystery pro assassin guy, but you can’t wrap your brain around the fact that if this person used a suppressor, we don’t know what kind, we have no idea if they were ballin’ on a budget and got something that would expel smoke, we just don’t know.
If concealed well enough and a poor search conducted (steered away by the powers that be who orchestrated it) then the snipers nest could be disassembled in the following hours or days without notice especially as they controlled the entire crime scene…
They wouldn’t have to go through those lengths if they could fire shots from inside the building and never leave a trace, like you keep implying
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BigTim
Who was IN the building? Nobody as far as I can tell from many hours of watching many videos, except GN and an unknown person (presumably his partner). So who is going to report gunshots from inside? It appears nobody was in there but those two. I speculate they made sure of it. GN kept guard at the doors while his partner climbed into the nest.
GN comes out 2 minutes post-shooting, acting EXTREMELY relaxed and too casual, overacting as it appears to me.
But isn’t his post on the 2nd floor of building 2, facing south, that he abandoned 9 minutes earlier. WHY is he down on the 1st floor. What possible, plausible reason has he left his 2nd floor post that it must be noted is literally the best overwatch position of anyone in the area to see Crooks position to stop him, shoot him, and keep the crime scene secure. What possible reason is he down on the ground floor with 20 other cops?
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Commenter
That’s a good one. To better cover a shot from inside AGR, it would be helpful to have as few people as possible just in front of AGR 6. And indeed we saw two characters shooing people away from there:
- before the shooting, the pepper-haired, grey shirt/jeans guy at the start of the D Stewart video: “Off! This is no trespassing! Off!”
- after the shooting, the sergeant with Butler Township, something to the effect “If you’re not law enforcement, GO!”
And if anyone was left there, like D Stewart, it would be helpful to have them distracted just before:
- such as a woman riding a horse with a massive Trump flag back and forth across the southern side of AGR 6
The multiple audio evidence does have 1-3 more muffled than 4-8 (consistent with 1-3 inside), and 1-3 with a shorter snick-boom delay than 4-8 (consistent with 1-3 ~14 ft closer to Trump than 4-8).
I don’t think we need to await someone to report a shot from inside AGR 6 to consider as a credible hypothesis that 1-3 came from inside AGR 6.
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BigTim
Legit question, this has all been discussed repeatedly so at this point are you trolling us? Just throwing up nonsense now. [I left it out -GC]
Intolerance
Did the shots come from inside the building or not? First you’re telling me shots are muffled, now this person could have been completely undetectable. Whatever. Either way, 8 shots were fired outside the building, that much is clear to me. [It was originally 5 then changed to 8 later -GC]
Nobody can figure it out, that’s what we are discussing through clues and process of elimination. This is a detective type decision tree.
Crooks acted alone, yes or no. If yes, then he got extremely lucky to exploit a obvious and fatal defect in an unsecured rooftop to kill and injure during the worst security deficiency in 62 years under totally implausible circumstances.
IF No, then to what extent did the deep state allow or aid it in happening and if so, it’s more likely than not they’d have installed a professional to ensure the job was done right.
If that’s the case, there are finite locations from which the pro could fire, to maintain similar trajectory as Crooks:
- Building 7 rooftop, 5 meters taller, about 250 feet behind Crooks. I’ve gone into great detail here as has someone else.
- A attic vent of AGR#6 above the drop ceiling.
- A tree.
There are arguments for or against each theory. Discussed in hundreds of posts now.
Intolerance
How would smell of gunpowder on a rooftop mask the smell inside of the building?
Intolerance
What makes you say that? Why would officers clearing the building not think twice smelling fresh gunpowder inside of the building??
Seriously? Extremely reasonable for room clearing pipe hitters to quickly look for suspects (e.g. man in a window), weapons, brass, etc. They aren’t doing sniff tests of rooms. They’re rushing thru with guns pointed ready for action. Easily distracted and summoned elsewhere by someone in authority after “all clear.” “Smelling” gunshots is the movies and what a detective would do, not combat laden door kickers rushing thru clearing rooms. News flash, they also aren’t doing DNA swaps or dusting for fingerprints or shoeprints either. They are there to clear rooms, eliminate threats or detain suspects. IF this theory holds correct, 3 shots taken above a false ceiling, mere feet below the roof where Crooks was believed to have fired 8 shots, would be indiscernible to a door kicker clearing rooms. Any incidental smell of gunpowder would be EASILY explained by their perception that 8 shots were just fired on the roof 10 feet above them.
Intolerance
Some suppressors do get gassy, they expel smoke outwards. You guys are telling me there is a 2nd mystery pro assassin guy, but you can’t wrap your brain around the fact that if this person used a suppressor, we don’t know what kind, we have no idea if they were ballin’ on a budget and got something that would expel smoke, we just don’t know.
I don’t know man, it’s a theory. “Gassy.” “Smokey.” It’s 3 shots. Almost no gas or smoke at all, and almost no smell. Shall we go over every suppressor on the market now? I’m pretty confident a professional sniper could select the best tool to suppress gasses and flash for this task if it played out that way. BTW, yesterday you baulked at the notion that a few thousand dollars would be expensive for Crooks yet a suppressor is “ballin” money for deep state assassin? Say wha??!!
Intolerance
They wouldn’t have to go through those lengths if they could fire shots from inside the building and never leave a trace, like you keep implying.
Oi vey. Did I say they’d never leave a trace at any time? No. So now you’re fabricating or changing information. I said there are ways to muffle sound, flashes, and the gunshot noise and smells would be effectively confused and concealed by the gunpowder on the roof above. I did not ever say “never leave a trace.” What I did say is that they control the crime scene and could alter or dispose of evidence at a later time in this scenario.
I’ll be going non-responsive unless your dialogue starts to get less troll-y and more reasonable and fact based.
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brian60221
Your comment [BigTim] helped bring something into focus for me. What seems to have happened is that GN and his partner missed a kid assembling a gun and crawling around on the roof they had overlook of, OK. But then shots ring out, and the shooter is killed, but neither GN nor his partner happen to glance out the window of their building to see the shooter lying there dead. And then he comes downstairs with his gun drawn like 90s after the shooter has been killed, and then starts running around looking for him. This is what we are supposed to believe.
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Big Tim in reply to Intolerance
Guy, I’ll repeat it for probably the 20th time on this forum. I bought my first AR15 about 25 years ago, and have owned many more since. I’ve fired untold high number of rounds thru many different AR15s. I own them in at least 3 calibers as well 223/556, 308, and 762 Tokarev (custom made). I qualified repeatedly expert and sharpshooter on the M4 many times, and went to war in OIF many times. I’m intimately familar with the platform. I have a similar history with all firearms, handguns, shotguns, rifles. I’ve been to a LOT of indoor and outdoor ranges, more than I can recite. I’ve shot unique guns most gun owners have never shot.
So with that out of the way, I know exactly what gun powder smells like, even the ammonia smell of corrosive ammo. Like what I shot on Sunday out at the range for 4 hours shooting 12 different guns, pistols, rifles, and shotguns.
Assuming the hypothesis that someone fired 3 rounds from a concealed position in the ceiling followed by someone else firing 8 rounds on the metal roof maybe 10 feet above him. There’s very little chance that a team of men clearing the building for threats would have had the presence of mind to smell these few gunshots and even if they did there’s almost zero chance they would have pinpointed that they came from a specific location inside versus just assuming they came from the rooftop where they’d also have assumed 8 rounds had been fired.
Again, these door kickers and room clearing guys, and even the cops afterwards, if they even smelled a faint smell of gunpowder, would almost certainly have assumed it was from the rooftop. These men are primarily there to find threats, not dust for evidence, pinpoint gun powder smells, etc. Notice these men cleared out and didn’t look for any evidence. That doesn’t mean a lack of evidence, it means they weren’t LOOKING for evidence. They were looking for threats.
We know I’m right. I’ll illuminate the behaviors of the rooftop door kickers. They moved Crooks’ rifle away, ziptied his hands, searched his pockets, and then stood guard. They didn’t pull out a market to circle the brass, they didn’t get down prone to check the angle of trajectory, they didn’t put down any tape to secure the area, they didn’t fingerprint him, they didn’t grab the gun serial number, they didn’t gather brass, they didn’t smell the rifle, etc. they literally secured the area and guarded it from threats. Zero detective work. Just door kicker work, of securing the area.
Furthermore, that does not even factor the possibility that a professional would use air fresheners to mask the smell. A few Glad air fresheners or a potent air spray would easily cover it.
You’ve attempted to use an analogy of a indoor gun range. I have bad news for you. Those see HUNDREDS of rounds daily. And the general smell would make it impossible to pinpoint which stall was the origin of a specific gun powder. You can generally smell gunpowder in the lobby of a gun shop from the gun range. Do you assume that a gun was fired in the lobby, or more likely it was fired in the gun range? Obviously you assume the gun range is the origin of the smell. So your analogy is bad on at least 3 levels.
………………….
Starting HERE is a discussion of the timing of the shots 1-3 vs 4-8, types of weapons and such.
I am going to leave this discussion at that. However I am going to add a point that is NOT brought up. AGR was bought by an LLC formed by globalists in January 2023. This was JUST AFTER Trump announced his 2024 presidential bid on November 15th of 2022. 🤔
New management often does renovation to buildings after they buy a corporation. It would be incredibly easy to build the sniper’s nest in the rafters AND ADD VENTILATION in the time after the purchase and before the assassination attempt. A fan could be hard wired or battery operated. Heck I have a ventilation fan in my attic. I run it all summer. So a fan just under that metal roof, above the ceiling tiles, would not be considered uncommon.
The AGR purchase:
…March 16, 2023 /PRNewswire/ — Indicor, LLC (“the Company”) today announced that Doug Wright will join its Board of Directors and become the Company’s CEO, effective April 1.…
Agr International Inc., a provider of quality and process control technologies for plastic beverage packaging, is being purchased by
Indicor LLC, for a undisclosed amount.
Indicor is a diversified industrial company headquartered in Charlotte, N.C. It was formed in January 2023…
President & CEO at Indicor
1y
Our #futureshapers have been busy helping cities plan their future. Honeywell and Accelerator for America just launched the Honeywell Smart City Accelerator Program to help cities strategically plan their futures.
Sudha Jebadurai – AGR International Inc | LinkedIn page has been deleted. She is the Chief Operating Officer.
AGR’s management team will continue to lead the business from its Butler, PA, headquarters. AGR’s name, brands, and operational footprint will not change as a result of the transaction. The business will be led by AGR’s President, Sudha Jebadurai. — YAHOO NEWS
Any bets she supports Harris?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CROOK’S DECOY RUNNING INTERFERENCE
OMG…I’m going to try and tamp down my excitement but if this right it proves there was 2 “Crooks” at the assassination venue.
4:26 Beaver County CS text continued …“I’m just letting you know because you see me go out with my rifle and put it in my car so he knows you guys are up there sitting to the direct right on a picnic table about 50 yards from the exit,” he wrote of the suspicious person who turned out to be Crooks.
Around 5:10 p.m., Crooks was below the counter-snipers who were inside the AGR International building warehouse where the 20-year-old eventually climbed onto the roof and from which he fired his AR-15, the Times reported.
The video is at CTH
The following comments are all coming from: The Mystery Of The Blood In The Bathroom by Chris Martenson
Was J13th also high school dress-alike day?
Now we have another person in tan knee-high shorts, that might be called “white short”, even has black shoes & Scrawny looking, just like the gunman… And he looks very out of place and nerveous at the enterence to the east side…
Another white-shorts guy was over on the west side by the retaining wall, and he hung out their long enought to interact with officers searching for the suspect…
You can see him in this image but watch his movements in the clip used in the video… Remember, he was calmly sitting at the retaining wall while others were alerting LEO’s, then as one LEO was back stepping, inches away from a spot where he’d be able to see the Gunman’s position, the guy in white shorts draws his attention to the wrong side of the cooridor between the two buildings… This brings the LEO away from a view across building 6’s north roof face… He then moves around the Uni-cop, keeping him looking down the wrong side of the gap between the buildings… This is orchestrated confusion…
On day one of this incident, when i saw that first video or the first people alert to the threat, that guy’s placement and behavior grabbed my attention as verious suspicious…
I backed off on my suspicion until i saw him draw the Unicop away from a line of visibility to the gunman… Plausible deniability and plausible excuseability are in action on either side of the building where the shooter could have been seen…
That is not accidental… In my Opinion…
SCREENSHOT FROM 2:30 clip:
This may be the same gentleman that is seen sitting on the wall that Crooks was photographed at as Crooks is walking around the front of the south side of AGR building, (note Greg Nicols sniper riffle in window)…and i believe much later that he directs an officer towards the north to where Crooks climbed onto building 6 before the shooting occurs…that may not be included in the clip you show…(cant remember where from though)
this is from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMkDmV-TfA 12 undefinedundefined:31 into video onwards…
nesum-dourma
Thanks, that adds one more picture to the collage of his white-hat-Double’s activity… The video you reference and this image make differentiating features hard to see. Your image looks to show a white hat, but not his white socks… The person in the video looks to have black socks but the head is not visible in the clip… No time-reference adds an ID challenge… I’m guessing that he’s my guy…
He was sitting on the ground at the time of the first sighting of “Guy On The Roof”…
That was posted to another podcast. I modified my initial impression when the timing of various spotings, from different videos-sources, was sorted out and corrected & discarded… But when i found this video with an apparent Distraction Dance, my suspicion returned and is climbing…
Has any bodycam footage been seen from interactions at the first sighting location, especially LEO’s contact with this guy? If not, why not??
This guys activity/movement needs to be more carefully ploted because image angle can distort relative position and proximity…
Due to my subscription level & technical limitations i may not be able to post a thorough recomstruction…
I may be getting the wrong impression from the camera angle, but him being so close to the retaining wall, and then backing up toward the venue away from the 2 story & away from what would seem to be an ideal viewing spot to the north of the gap and well west of 2-story’s west wall, seems be an intential action that may have had nefarious purpose. Or so it seems…
Your username describes something that i’d like to catch to detach from thi chaos, but escape may not be very helpful to dealing with the problem…
Thanks again.
nesum-dourma
His pants and scrawnyness caught my eye when Chris mentioned him… Put a grey shirt on him and from a distance held look like the white-pants suspect…
I used him as a carrot to draw attention to the pre-shooting west-side activity, which seems far more important than the chaos on the east after any gauntlets were already nevigated by the gunman and his vulnerable west side was successfully guarded, by possibly two people’s presence & interaction with LEO’s…
But this too may be a distraction away from the glaring non-reactiveness of officers on the west side where the gunman made his approach, and was most vulnerable as he got into final position on the north roof…
As everyone can see in the videos from the east, via overly wide angle footage that exaggertes distance, the east side observer’s vision was hindered by the sun angle…
A careful planner would take this into account and put his backdoor blocker team on the west side, right where the long-haired guy was spotted at the retaining wall…
That exaggerated distance detail needs to be strongly highlighted by influencers, because media people are making commentis about distances based on video footage which is distorted by the camera lens… LEO would have had a far better view than their cameras would provide… That disparity needs to be magnified to thwart plausible_excusibility…
Sorry about dangling that carrot…
Commenter
This guy is dressed so similarly to Crooks, he may be a decoy to draw attention away from Crooks and confuse LEOs
nesum-dourma
That’s the word i was looking for, a decoy, its exactly the impression i’m suggesting… Thnx!
The day was a hot one and this guy sat in the glaring sun as if he was a cold blooded critter trying to stay warm… Which is entirely possible, until his action drew a disruptive LEO away from a position with a clear view of the gunman while he was occupied assembling his weapon and was vulnerable…
Maybe there is another explanation… That is why raising this, in the shuffle of clues , to a higher priority may draw out the bodycam footage or an explanation about this guys intent… He drew the officer southward rather than west and north where the plane of the roof crosses his eye’s level…
I’m trying to coax John Cullen to put these details into his visual modeling program…
I don’t know how to determine if the LEO was approaching backward to the ideal location, but when i saw a guy come toward him from behind and then vear away when the cop got drawn away, i got to thinking he WAS on the right path to a neutralizer’s position, then he was taken off the scent…
Coincidental??? I think not… This is high stakes poker… A lot is riding on watching the play closely for card tricks… They are dealing off a stacked deck…
But we must not get overly suspicious, that can be used against us and it harms us spiritually…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CROOKS, YEARICK OR BOTH? NOW WE WILL NEVER KNOW.
BREAKING: Trump Shooter Thomas Matthew Crooks’ Body is GONE — Body CREMATED 10 Days After Trump’s Assassination Attempt — Gateway Pundit
A preliminary investigation report by Rep. Clay Higgins (LA-R) has revealed the body of Trump rally shooter Thomas Matthew Crooks is gone.
In Rep. Higgins’s report, he wrote that on August 5th, when he requested to view the body of Thomas Matthew Crooks, he was told the body of Crooks was “gone.”
The representative from Louisiana further noted that the FBI released the body to be cremated just ten days after the shooting occurred on July 13…
On top of that the FBI scrubbed down the scene removing any biological material. So there went any possibility of determining just who the shooter shown on the roof actually was. OR determining if the body shown actually had wounds from the rifle being splintered. OR if there was one or more shooters on that roof. -GC
Para59r
Butler Coroners office never did the autopsy, it was shipped to an Allegany County Medical Examiner’s office. Lots of things smell in this latest update. At this point it seems iffy to even say it was Crooks who was cremated.
Guest Contributor Aug. 19, 2024 8:00 am
WIKI says Allegheny county is
“… the state’s second-most populous county, after Philadelphia County. Its county seat and most populous city is Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania’s second most populous city. The county is part of the Greater Pittsburgh region of the state..” So you KNOW it is heavily Demonrat. — GC
H/T Tonawanda
However one regards Lame Cherry, her assessment of J13 is very reasonable and plausible:
https://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2024/08/j-13.html
The “FBI” cremating the body of purported Crooks IMO is by itself sufficient to prove their evil involvement. It is not only destruction of critical evidence, it is a means to spawn confusion and chaos by blatantly proving a murderous conspiracy, the specifc details of which will never be known.
Forcible interrogation of the “FBI” agents who caused the cremation, and the agent who performed the cremation (if there WAS a cremation), should be the starting point in working back to others involved.
I realize this will never happen. At this point we know there is no agency, organization, or persons who will have the ability to conduct an investigation even if there was a genuine intent to do so.
So we are left knowing without knowing, the daily MO of those who control us. And what are we to do, can we do?
IMO making direct accsations, regardless of the level of evidence, is a way to start. For example: “The FBI and SS were engaged in an assassination attempt to murder a political oppponent.” We are entitled to make the accusation (in part) because of the efforts to hide what happened, again regardless of the level of evidence. Under the circumstances there is at least enough to support reasonable suspicion, and that is enough.
Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy
Reply to Tonawanda
Great points! Let me repeat and enhance them.
First, I want to sharpen the accusation. For a reason.
Elements within both the FBI and US Secret Service, including some in leadership positions, were engaged in an assassination attempt to murder a political opponent.
This clarity puts elements WITHIN those organizations ON OUR SIDE. They are in a position to help us obtain evidence.
Next, I want to emphasize what you are saying – that a circumstantial case exists, and that it is STRONG.
And particularly this – that the elements within FBI and USSS are behaving in ways that show classic consciousness of guilt, and are now naturally suspect by any sound perspective of law enforcement.
We need to enhance (in a kind of reversal of classic communist strategy) the perspective of a contradiction – of law enforcement being the suspect of criminal behavior. This allows the internal fight in these organizations to fester, to break into the open, and to then resolve in our favor (whatever that outcome is).
Every call from our mouth that these agencies must be destroyed makes them live longer. That contradiction is used against us, over and over. Likewise, calls that they “only need reform” – also bullshit, but a different kind.
We should not care if the organizations are reformed or destroyed – only that the infection is brought to sunlight and sterilized. Whatever happens, happens. The true fight is to reveal the evil and hypocrisy in the organizations, and to make the guilty parties pay. That is what Trump did in 2016, and it was so effective that the evil elements in DOJ and FBI went all the way with operations like VEGAS.
H/T Tonawanda
Does this remind you of the Intel Community and the Media?
For example…
FOX NEWS: (with video)
FBI fires back at claims it released Crooks’ body for cremation days after Trump assassination attempt : Rep. Clay Higgins, R-La., says that the FBI cleaned up biological evidence from the crime scene
…An FBI spokesperson tells Fox News Digital that any suggestion the agency is interfering with congressional efforts to look into the attempted assassination “is inaccurate and unfounded.”The agency said that Crooks’ body was released to his family after coordination with the coroner’s office as well as state and local law enforcement partners “in keeping with normal procedures.”…
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
FINALLY THE BLOOD IN THE BATHROOM
Wolf Moon | Threat to Demonocracy
Reply to Gail Combs
August 17, 2024 10:47
My lead candidate for blood in the bathroom was the officer who tried to get over the edge of the roof and dropped down hastily. He is said to have needed stitches. That even fits the timing of the blood in the bathroom which was discovered later.
You can go to this LINK to follow that discussion.
To me the key is the body cam footage of the officer in question. The evidence from the police body cam shows him going up on the roof. (You even see his hands) then he drops down AND RUNS TO HIS CAR, he is so upset, he has trouble opening the door (Electronic) then grabs his rifle and puts it together. (you can hear him puffing) he then goes back and CLIMBS ON THE ROOF A SECOND TIME AFTER THE SHOOTER IS SHOT. — GC
BREAKING: New Bodycam Footage Shows Police Officer Being Hoisted Onto Roof, Confronting Thomas Crooks Before He Opened Fire on Trump by Cristina Laila Aug. 8, 2024 5:00 pm
New bodycam footage shows a police officer being hoisted onto the roof to confront would-be assassin Thomas Crooks just two minutes before he opened fire on Trump and rallygoers on July 13 in Butler, Pennsylvania…
the article contains a 6:36 minute video.
~ 2:15 he gets his gun.
~ 3:50 he describes what he saw on the roof
`6:00 “Hey Jessie you got me up once…”
So no he did not go and clean up.
Then there is the discussion that actually IDs the probable cop who left the blood. – GC
Aug 12 The Mystery Of The Blood In The Bathroom by Dr Chris Martenson
…One big mystery is whose blood was it in the bathroom that caused a second shooter panic to briefly ensue causing nearly every officer of every flavor to rush into the building in haste?
We can account for every person going into and out of the building through door #9 and none of them appear to be “an operator” whose hand was injured enough to leave blood all over an interior bathroom.
This mystery definitely needs to be tied up.
Another mystery centers on a dodgy-looking handoff of something that might be a gun, or it might be a door-breaching tool. It’s hard to say, but it’s on a sling. On second look, and under higher magnification, I’m going with door-breaching implement. What do you think?
Then from Higgins Report:
“…Shot nine “hit Crooks’ rifle stock” and fragmented into the shooter’s face, neck, and right shoulder area from the stock breaking up into pieces, the congressman said….”
Aubergine posted this photo of the rifle that was supposedly hit.
Possible second shooter on the roof
Commenter WSB August 3, 2024 04:11
I saw the video by Copenhaver positioned from behind PT yesterday,
where one can actually see two people on that roof.
The original one is the person who runs across the roof, but to the left is another person deep in shadow. Under what looks like a red boom arm…under an overhang. Fairly easy to see.
I watched the video (18 sec) at the slowest speed and there is something white moving right next to the black under that red boom arm. Also according to earlier reports the leo team on the 2nd floor could not see the shooter AND were not at their post at the time of the shooting. One left to go home, one left to chase the shooter and forgot his key card ( Greg Nicol) and the third had to go down stairs to let him back in. – GC
The story about the counter-sniper leaving his post to go look for Crooks, then getting locked out, came from this X post by Benny Johnson. Johnson stated that it came from “a first-hand source of highest credentials.” Well, it turns out the story was mostly true, the timing involved was just a little off. Greg did leave the building to look for Crooks, albeit close to 2 minutes after shots were fired. He did get locked out of the building, and it appears someone let him back in along with other LEOs. The question becomes, why did that first-hand source leak that story” Inquiring minds want to know.
Commenter
Good point, a partial lie to misdirect? So this suggests that Greg Nicol was inside AGR during the shooting, and to cover this the story was planted that one ESU sniper left post to look for Crooks and the another to let him back in AGR?
One very suspicious conversation involving “bathroom” and “AGR” over phone is this is Dropbox video 7. What’s weird is the desire for secrecy:
- 7:22:21 Cruiser LEO: “Hey, are you still recording on your body camera?”
… silence for a good 3.5 seconds …
- 7:22:28: “Was.”
- 7:22:30: Cruiser LEO asks confused: “Hey, um, where, where, where were you at when … I thought you was in the bathroom! … Tom and Evenson were talking and you end up being up here!”
- 7:22:38: Cruiser LEO exclaims, “Yeah, I thought you went to the bathroom! And you said, what did you say? ‘I’m at the AGR’”!
For some reason, the Cruiser LEO does not want this conversation to be recorded. Then he wonders about why his buddy in the convo was not in the bathroom but supposedly in AGR.
@cmartenson July 29, 2024 FBI press call update of Trump’s assassination attempt at Butler, PA There is also a few questions taken from reporters at the end. Some highlights & excerpts taken from the update: seven local law enforcement officers injured either as a result of the shooting or from their actions during the initial response. identified the model of the rifle the subject used; a DPMS AR-15 style firearm designed to shoot 5.56-millimeter ammunition. the weapon was purchased…
AdamAus
That lady was next to Corey Comperatore.
She got shot at her wrist/forearm area.
It seems that FBI /SS / media/ authorities doesn’t mentioned her at all. Kinda she was memory-holed.
Another senator’s nephew was grazed by a bullet on his neck.
👉 Afaik there are 4 spectators injured and 1 spectator died that day of the rally.
Lady injured mentioned at about 37 sec in.
MacD
And we still do not know who the second ESU sniper assigned to 2nf floor over-watch was – Greg Nicol has been identified, why not the other?
It’s hard to tell if all the people we see leaving AGR later in the video are the same ones who went in. If someone different were exiting, it could well be that second ESU sniper. But if he is not leaving AGR, why stay inside, especially since GN left? Could he be the one who bled?
I find it notable that the plain clothes, who had been on the western grounds of AGR 6 and would have heard and seen people pointing to Crooks with rifle on roof – and seemed so inept then – happen now to converge quickly to the eastern side of AGR 6, to know Greg Nicol and chat with him (D Stewart video), and to be among the first to rush into AGR 6 when the door opens. Why were they apparently so dismissive and inept on the west side, but on the east side so urgent and keen to go in?
Also, Chris points out that GN exits pretty relaxed (and chats relaxed with plain clothes), but then is keen to be the first back in AGR 6, even though he was not the one closest to the door. It’s almost as if he wants to clean up a scene inside before others get to it.
In one of the bodycam videos with the yellow steel fence there are three or four officers waiting in front of AGR asking to go in to clear the bldg. The doors are locked. No one says anything and they just stand there waiting for what seems like forever. Wasn’t this of enormous importance to get in? To clear the bldg? Also, I just watched 2hrs of cruiser cam footage and no officer comes over with that handful of key cards for the door. Maybe cruiser footage started afterward? If not, is Greg the only one inside?Maybe some reason not to rush in to clear the bldg? Greg casually walks out the door. I wish I had all of the footage stored so I could easily check this out.
BWC2-122117 @19:10.15s
Officers…units inside have fresh blood in one of the bathrooms…fresh blood inside in one of the bathrooms…@19:10.58 there was an opperator who injured themselves…were not sure…
@19:11.41 Trooper Graham was bleeding in that building…Trooper Graham was bleeding
@19:11.53 there was a trooper that was bleeding inside the building
This is the conversation @RealDJStew724 heard from the transmission of the Patrol officer after he had been moved from the AGR building in and was standing outside of…as seen in body cam video…
carrying on from transcript this is a reply to, from different source video.
M-500 016197
(Patrol Car Audio…that may be a different channel than officer transmissions)
@19:10.06 “13 05 officers officers units inside they have fresh blood in one of the bathrooms…theres fresh blood inside one of the bathrooms…which buildings XXX…the main building…the main big one…the main big one…we need to hold a perimeter around these buildings guys…”
@19:10.55 “the one the operator may have injured himself we are not sure”
@19:11.09 “check in on your operators for any injured and bleeding”
@19:11.20 “13 05 “i know you have probably heard it reported fresh blood in one of the bathrooms in the main AGR building…correction AGR building and then um one of you guys may have been bleeding…were double checking”
@19:11.39 “command Trooper Graham was bleeding in that building…Trooper Graham was bleeding”
@19:11.49. “There was a BSP Trooper that was bleeding inside the building”
the video i am referring to as its on @RealDJStew724 youtube page…title ” (8/9) Trump Rally (07/13/24) Butler, PA. Bodycam Footage “bwc2-1221172”
…(note Greg Nicols sniper riffle in window)…. this is from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXMkDmV-TfA 12 @0:31 into video onwards…
This evidence is a good video to add to the dropbox.I think this 3:44 minute video shows a Trooper in a blue uniform injure his hand climbing the fence around the 0:45 mark. Looks to be the same white trooper, no badge, camera on left breast pocket, radio cord on left side. A FOIA for his camera would be useful if anyone is filing FOIAs to see where he went and got treatment.
It also shows SS red tie guy trapped on the stage side of the fence to show his whereabouts immediately after the shooting (and by default, immediately before/during).
We see where the black tactical collapsing ladder comes from in this clip.
We see a lot of the police officers and LEOs in black tactical gear if we need to identify whereabouts.
We also get to see a clip of the first 4 guys on the roof but nothing before that showing who arrived first and in what order or any activities prior to what we already have, essentially.
Law Enforcement Officers Struggle to Get Through Fences Amid Trump Shooting
[You can see one state trooper at the beginning of the video may have cut his hand climbing the fences because he looks at his hand at 0:46 Starting at 2:28 running in from the right is a guy in tan tactical gear carrying a collapsible ladder. At 3:16 you can see two cops, SS? in black and two in tan tactical on the roof. — GC]
Reply to: BigTim
Good catch! The two in your video, the PA State policeman who cut his hand on the fence along with the secret service black polo who jumped the fence, also appear in the other video posted by Chris, arriving at 6:15:00 at door 9 of AGR 6. When the PA State trooper goes in, he may soon enough visit the bathroom to address his cut and any blood.
I hope that gives you a lot to chew on for the rest of the day. I also hope it was not too confusing… I STILL HATE WORD PISS! – Gail
