Dear MAGA: Open Topic 20181116

This intermittently re-posted open thread is VERY OPEN – a place for everybody to post whatever they feel they would like to tell the White Hats, and the rest of the MAGA world.  We ask that people NOT duplicate material posted to the Treehouse open threads, unless it’s REALLY IMPORTANT.  We expect things that are more relevant to the Q community to show up here.

Say what you want, comment on what other people said, comment on people’s comments.  Keep it civil.  Treehouse rules, but expect lots of QAnon.

W

James Coburn reading a newspaper in a cafe in France in The Great Escape.
So McConnell isn’t putting up with Flake’s Democrat nonsense any more.  Good.  Today I realized why they used these RINOs.  A Sun Tzu Bolshevik advantage.  Same with McCain.  It was all about hiding the socialist takeover.  They thought Trump was merely an obstacle.  No.  He is the complete and final antithesis and downfall of their conspiracy.

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rayzorbak

Speaking of “burnt to a crisp” (except for the trees)….. Fox news chiron this Friday morning running:
66 Dead and 600 unaccounted for? = 666?

thinkthinkthink

I have a bad feeling about this.

wheatietoo

Q has mentioned ‘Prayer’ many times…and has indicated that it is something that the Q-team engages in.
Our Founders set up our system of laws and our justice system, to reflect historical faith-based tenets of law and order.
Some people argue about this…but I think that the evidence is there.
Take the use of the Bible in our courtrooms.
People are asked to ‘place their hand on the Bible’ and swear that their testimony will be…
“The whole truth, so help you God.”
We want a return to Law and Order.
Our laws were based on people at large…having Faith.
For without it, what do those people swear to when they are asked to tell the truth as a witness in a Court of Law?
I have wondered for a while, if this isn’t the real Reason why there has been such a concerted effort to destroy Christianity…and it’s place in our country.
This country was Founded by Christians.
This is the truth!
It is a part of our history and our heritage.
Part of the Christian Faith…is telling the Truth.
It is set forth in the Ten Commandments.
Islam, for example, is not based on telling the Truth.
In fact…Islam actually encourages muslims to lie!
It encourages lying and excuses it, codifies it and promotes it as a way to “further Islam” around the world.
Those who are trying to rid this country of all vestiges of Christianity…are also the ones who are doing other things to destroy our system of Law and Order.
Coincidence?
I don’t think so.

SteveInCO

I gotta partially disagree with this. Partially.
This is going to be something of an incohesive ramble; I’m just much too tired to try to tighten it up.
The Founders did indeed recognize that the Constitution would only be as good as the people who were charged with upholding it. We’ve certainly seen that in action today.
Is our government based on Christianity?
You discussed swearing oaths in court. The constitution says nothing about this but does say something about oaths of office. The Constitution itself explicitly acknowledges that some people will not be swearing an oath to God. The Presidential oath of office as described in Article II Section I, last paragraph, you have the option to say “I do solemnly affirm” (rather than swear), and, what might surprise many, “so help me God!” is NOT part of the constitutionally mandated oath or affirmation. If someone were to leave that off, Fundamentalists would run around with their hair on fire for the next four years, BUT it would be constitutional.
There is also Article Six: last sentence states that all senators, representatives, judges, state reps, at both federal and state levels shall be “bound by Oath or Affirmation [there’s that option to affirm again!] to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any office or public Trust under the United States.” This means that you cannot be required to adhere to a particular religion, or for that matter any religion at all. (Note, they *could* have required people not to be atheists, or required them to be any sect as long as it was a Christian sect…but they did not do this.)
So apparently The Founders did not find religion to be necessary. Many of them were not terribly religious (though many were). Franklin famously put forth a motion to pray before every session of the constitutional convention. This is a fact often brought up by people who insist that the Founders’ generation was just as religious as a Billy Graham crusade. But they routinely leave out the rather critical fact that the motion failed to pass. Not this well: There was not a majority of people there who found it either desirable or necessary to pray before beginning discussions. The Founders, religious or no, wanted the Fed Gov to be utterly neutral in matters of religion. That’s why the Constitution does not say this is a Christian country; in fact the words “Christ,” “God,” “Jesus” do not appear in it at all. (“Lord” shows up in the date at the end, as in “in the Year of Our Lord” because that was the standard way dates were written back then; it’s no more significant than the fact that Tuesday is a reference to a Norse god.) I’ve even read quotes from the early 1800s where people complained about how Godless the Constitution was! They seem to see something many present-day conservatives don’t.
Is America a Christian nation? Yes and no. In the trivial sense that a majority of the population is at least somewhat Christian, yes, it’s a nation full of Christians. In the non-trivial sense claiming that the government explicitly based on Christian precepts? No! The Constitution is a secular (religiously neutral, but not hostile to religion) document.
Ah, but you say the underpinnings to our ethics are Christian, therefore it’s somehow baked into our political DNA? Well, no. There’s nothing particularly unique about Christianity’s moral code; most religions forbid murder, theft, etc. (all do, at least for fellow believers). Our code of laws is in no way based on the Ten Commandments (though it shares some things in common with them). In fact the first four or five Commandments lay down religious requirements that, if actually enacted into law, would violate the First Amendment.
Taking your specific example up, many religions require you to tell the truth; Christianity is not “special” in this regard. (Actually the Ten Commandments don’t require you to tell the truth, they require you to not lie about your neighbor in court., i.e, you’re required to not commit perjury, i.e., a requirement to tell the truth under certain limited circumstances.) This is not at all unique to Christianity.
(In Islam’s partial defense, they’re only encouraged to lie to non believers, for the purposes of advancing Islam. The (indefensible) rationale for this is that it’s the same way we’d lie to the enemy in wartime, because they conceive of themselves being perpetually at war with infidels.)
I’ve met many people, many of them are outright atheists. I’ve known many atheists with integrity, and I’ve known many pious snakes in the grass. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of correlation with someone’s religious beliefs and their integrity or morals.
Political beliefs, on the other hand….

shannynae

May I kindly and respectfully say….you are so wrong. You need to find the writings of those that framed the Constitution, read what they wrote in their journals.

SteveInCO

This makes a great deal of sense.
I’d only want to add that it was the Christianity of their day and place. Christianity has taken many, many forms over the centuries (Spanish inquisition, Thirty Years War, anyone?) [cue people pointing to other forms and protesting that they are not really Christian…]; we’re just very fortunate that it was a tolerant form of it at the time, and the educated people of the time could see that it made sense to coexist with other sects rather than try to get the government to stamp them out.
Another factor was Deism, a belief in God that pretty much assumed he had no day-to-day direct “no sparrow shall fall” involvement with this world. Deism was fairly popular back then. He was pictured by Deists as having created the Universe for our benefit and wanted us to do well and do good, but he didn’t have a direct role. Deists generally weren’t Christians as we’d understand the term. The references to God in the Declaration are in fact phrases a Deist would be comfortable with (“Creator”, “Divine Providence,” etc.) and Christians would agree with, with no phrases a Deist would not be comfortable with. That doesn’t prove that Jefferson was a Deist (though I think he was), but it shows he was writing to an audience that had Deists in it.
Regardless of Jefferson’s affiliations, strictly speaking Deists weren’t Christians, but they were enough of a presence that they, too, had to have their religious freedoms respected.

wheatietoo

That’s it, Wolf…exactly so.
The Founders were immersed in and existed in, a Culture that was a result of centuries of Christianity.
It was…a Christian Culture.
They enjoyed the existence of it to the point that I don’t think they ever envisioned it being anything other than what they had grown up in.

wheatietoo

You make some cogent points, Steve…and thank you for that.
I was striving for brevity and resisted the urge to elaborate and explain what I meant, in some of the statements I made.
For example, when I said that our Founders set up our system of laws “to reflect historical faith-based tenets of law and order”…I didn’t mean that as exclusively Christian tenets.
The Founders were learned men for the most part.
They drew ideas from a range of historical writings, from the Judeo-Christian Ten Commandments to the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi.
Even though historical tenets were not of the Christian faith…there was usually the element of ‘Faith’, whether it was faith in a deity or faith in the monarchy that was handing down the laws.
In the case of a monarchy…their ‘supreme power’ was usually backed up with the claim that their power was given to them by a deity.
Even the Greco-Romans backed up their laws with claims that they had the blessings of their pantheon of deities.
Their people were expected to follow those laws as a part of being faithful to those deities.
And yes, many religions require you to tell the Truth.
And I too have met Christians who were dishonest snakes.
I have also known Atheists who seemed to have a great deal of integrity…but when I asked them, what do they ‘swear to’ if they are called to be a witness in court…they don’t really have an answer.
Perhaps some Atheists have worked out an answer for themselves to that question.
I just haven’t known any that did.
You are correct that our Founders did not set up this country as a ‘Christian country’.
They put a lot of stock in Freedom and Free Will, which included religious freedom.
While some of our Founders were gregarious sorts who availed themselves of the pleasurable pursuits of their day…there was an overriding sense of honor and integrity in their time period, which they prided themselves in adhering to.
In their time, there were things that an honorable and moral person just ‘didn’t do’…and if they did, they were shunned and eschewed from ‘polite society’.
The use of Christianity in our subsequent laws and courtrooms came later, as our population grew…and spread out across the land.
Our ancestors sought a way to ensure that people told the truth in a court of law, and followed the law in their daily live.
So I think that they turned to their Faith as a way to accomplish that.
I wonder what the Founders would think today, about how the concept of honor, integrity and morals has changed since ‘their day’.
Would they approve of the way that our Freedoms are being used to destroy us?
I would like to think that they just didn’t foresee how things might ever stray so far from their original vision…and that they would be appalled at what is happening now.

wheatietoo

…*in their daily life. (not ‘live’, sheesh)

SteveInCO

So who brought over the no-edit feature from CTH? THAT should have been left behind. 🙂

wheatietoo

My kingdom for an edit-button!
Things would be different if I were queen.

A.D. Everard

Trouble with an edit button is that people would post horrendous statements and then change them before the mods could be called in. I’ve seen it done on a gaming board and also on a competition board where first correct answer wins. What would happen would be a quick cheater would put in a vague and partial answer, then steal from a correct answer that came below and edit it into to his comment with the older place holding.
The trolls would absolutely LOVE an edit button.

A.D. Everard

Hi Steve, I’ve just put a reply to that tn answer to Wheatie who replied to you. I wanted to address both of you, so put it there.

A.D. Everard

“in” – spelling – blah!

SteveInCO

Yes and you made a valid point. I’ve been victimized by that myself, responding to a comment that then got edited and looking crazy as a result.
One compromise that might work is allowing edits for five minutes only. That’s enough time for the “Oh sh!t how did that blooper get past me???” crowd, as well as the “spotted the mistake just as the page started reloading with my comment” crowd. (I’ve been in both.)

SteveInCO

Oh, they foresaw the possibility of such decay. The specific form, no. Marxism and other forms of leftism we see around us today hadn’t been invented yet. I doubt they could have imagined the sheer folly that goes by the name “postmodernism.”
“A republic, if you can keep it.” — Ben Franklin, on being asked what the Convention had given us.

para59r

Not to quibble, but the latter emperors of the roman empire instituted into their economic system to what amounted to be tyrannical forms of socialism/communism and it of course failed and hastened their fall.

SteveInCO

Not really a quibble; it’s my fault for not being clear. I was referring to the specific ideology of Marxism with all the specific pseudo-scientific justifications for taking other people’s stuff that it entails. Strictly speaking socialism today is an offshoot of one of his described stages on the way to communism (which, believe it or not was supposed to have no need of a government–OK, you can pause to catch your breath from the fit of laughing you just had).
Political/economic practices like socialism and communism, but practiced with different justification, are probably as old as civilization if not older. I’m sure those late Roman emperors invented nothing.

SteveInCO

Oh, and technically, according to theory, the USSR wasn’t “communist” it was “socialist” (the second S stands for “Socialist”) because they were explicitly trying to force what Marx considered the natural evolution of society from capitalist to socialist to communist. They intended the “socialist” phase to be temporary, but it rapidly became evident the powerful of that society had no intention of just withering away.
Fortunately it was temporary, just not in the way they imagined.

Deplorable Patriot

Marxism and other forms of leftism we see around us today hadn’t been invented yet.
May Day (May 1) 1776, was the founding day of socialism actually, but the system didn’t really leave Europe until after the Paris commune in 1871 that lasted 41 days.
There’s a lot to this particular topic, and it has everything to do with dividing and conquering Christianity.

SteveInCO

It has everything to do with dividing and conquering whomever/whatever stands in its way. If it hadn’t happened to be Christianity, it’d be something else.

thinkthinkthink

Maybe. My observation from the history of the suffering church is that the rage of hell burns hottest for those in relationship to their Heavenly Father. But the original rebellious one despises the image of God in every human.

shannynae

I was cheering out loud while reading this! It truly is the answer to all of our problems. God has been so far removed from everything and it breaks my heart.
A careful study of the founding of this nation will show that the people, first and foremost, desired to live in a place where they could choose how to worship their God and to choose what they would believe. They came for religious freedom first and then everything else followed. We don’t teach that and most people don’t understand that.
You made my day…..thank you so very much.

Sylvia Avery

This has been percolating along under the surface for a long time. I think you have put your finger on it. If there is no right or wrong, no moral authority from God, then who is there to give us our Natural Rights? There is no One, no Being, no Power. Only the State. The State is what gives us our rights. Oh frickin’ goodie. I don’t want to depend on government if I can avoid it, especially for something fundamental like our rights.

pjasond

Great posts Wheatie, SteveinCO and everyone – I will re-post the following here from the “Something Big” post since it seems to be relevant to this ….
Ian McGilchrist’s magnum opus, The Master and His Emissary, may offer an understanding of the schism we have just been part of in the TH.
I will try to lay a very brief description as a sweetener, so that those whose interest is piqued can follow up.
The evidence points to brain hemispheric specialisation, with the left brain hemisphere (LBH) dealing with tasks that have been / are being mastered, whilst the RBH deals with meaning making, trying to understand / interpret the world at large. Because the world is essentially too complex to comprehend, the RBH has evolved to enable us to function in what is called “unexplored territory”, when we encounter something new or unexpected, it is primarily processed by our RBH, especially initially. When something is mastered or repeated , the LBH adopts that. The right hand is connected to the LBH, and the left hand with the RBH. That is why focussed tasks are generally dealt with by the right hand (in right handed people, who make up the majority).
A lot of work was done on birds, (not birds of prey, who have binocular vision like us), where the left eye is connected to the RBH and vice versa. It was found that birds use their right eyes to search for food (seeds on the ground, a goal directed activity that requires accuracy, narrow field of focus) whilst their left eyes were scanning for predators (a horizon wide, non-directed activity).
When looking for this correlation in humans, it was found that the LBH is scanning the narrow area of focus in the centre of your visual field of BOTH eyes, whilst the RBH is scanning your PERIPHERAL vision. Anyone who has been to game parks looking for animals know that your peripheral vision is way better at spotting – any movement is noted by your RBH, which directs your attention (and LBH) at the source of movement or anomaly.
It has been noted that that which can kill or eat you is by definition AWESOME (fills you with fear and awe). When encountering this, you can get goosebumps, which make your hair stand on end. You ALSOI experience this physical reaction when encountering great beauty, or something spiritual. It has been suggested that our evolutionary need to look out for predators has evolved further into our meaning making and religious impulse. So the arts, music and dance AND RELIGION is governed by our RBH.
So, to recap. Our LBH deals with the known, that which we are sure about and have mastered (or think we have mastered), whereas the RBH deals with the unknown wider world and is essential in our sense and meaning making – it deals with potential, the numinous and the unknown.
So for those that have stuck it out this far, here I come to the point of all this. This band of outcasts (i.e. us) from the TH are those that are open to the unknown, the potential possibilities that could be in play with regard to POTUS’s plans. We are open to many possibilities, and thus do not disparage new ideas or theories – cause that’s our “thang”. We have our LBH and RBH “in balance” (by and large) and are generally classified as open minded.
The people who are sure they know exactly what is going on are, by definition, closed minded. They are LBH dominant – dealing in certitude, and the “corpus callosum” (the connective tissue between LBH and RBH) in these people is in a primarily suppressive/inhibitory mode. That is why they are so disparaging of us – they are SO CERTAIN THAT THEY ARE RIGHT.
I and others here have often commented on the certainty and name calling exhibited by those that disparage us. With certainty comes arrogance – another trait on display amongst several (too many) posters “over there”.
Q is “the unknown blogger”. Open minded people are intrigued and check him/her out to see if they have anything to offer. Close minded people instantly leap to disparagement. Does this sound like what we have gone through?
PS. I have found direct evidence in my own experience that bears McGichrist’s theory out and I plan to blog about this when I am settled in Sydney. I have been on a wild ride the past 15 years or so, with weird stuff happening that I could not explain. McGichrist has gone some way to provide a material locus for what I have experienced, but it is my view (and his, I think) that the Holy Spirit interacts with us through our RBH – this is where we get our “eyes to see” and “ears to hear”.
McGichrist also offers a theory as to the rise and fall of civilisations. During the “rising” phase, the majority of people are open minded, hence the “great works” produced during this phase. Then people become arrogant in the belief of their own abilities, and close themselves off from the numinous source – decline inevitably follows. Just look at “modern art” and you realise we are on the down slope.
Hope this was of interest.

andrew1979

awesome post man! and the thing is, another so simple fact of two different things, part of the same whole, that have to work together in harmony to get all the tasks accomplished for the benefit of it’s host. each doing a unique and special job. and when one is cut off the efficiency, the accuracy and the potential for disaster starts to show up.
(Micky smacking Rocky…”You didn’t even see that comin’ Rock! He’ll kill ya Rock!”)
i am also a proud registered southpaw.

wheatietoo

Good stuff, Jason. Thanks.
Both my LBH and my RBH enjoyed reading that.
Heheh.

Sylvia Avery

Good grief, I am certain my IQ was gone up significantly just from reading that and Steve and Wheatie’s discussion above. Whew! My brain is full! Really interesting.

NebraskaFilly

Fascinating post, to be sure. I do have one question, however. “It has been suggested that our evolutionary need to look out for predators has evolved further into our meaning making and religious impulse.” How does that co-exist with this: “….but it is my view (and his, I think) that the Holy Spirit interacts with us through our RBH…”? How can the theory of evolution and our Christian beliefs co-exist? This is a question that has always existed in my mind vis-a-vis evolution.

pjasond

Yup, very well stated Wolf! See my somewhat lengthier response to NF below.
Please advise if my posts are too long / too dense – I accept critique as my goal is to learn. 🙂

SteveInCO

I recall reading somewhere a suggestion that we have a tendency to see “agency” (i.e., a conscious being making stuff happen) in a lot of things because in the distant past, you were better off assuming something, a predator, was causing the grass to move than just ignoring it and thinking it was the wind. Being wrong in one case meant you got eaten, being wrong in the other means you panicked unnecessarily. So we tend, by default, to see a conscious actor even when there is none.

pjasond

Yup, we APPEAR to have evolved this way. I would appreciate your critique of my reply to NF below as I am always trying to sharpen my logic / rationality.

tessa50

I believe evolution is at work in animals, just not humans. I believe God when He says we were created in his image. That’s my 2 cents.

thinkthinkthink

My personal position is that I am willing allow others to choose a different explanation for the things that aren’t central to the profound and deep experience of God as redeemer. Plenty of people have genuinely experienced God and yet have got a ton of theology that just ain’t so. Not my job to get everyone to see things my way. My joy is to find a place of common ground to connect. For surely, when the arrows start falling, we all are going to need to lock shields.

pjasond

Yup, free wil AND free speech. Hopefully Wolf is correct, that freedom is emergent. I tend to agree, BUT note that attaining freedom is painful!

pjasond

Hi NF, thanks for that question. My “SHORT” take is …
Science as a whole, and Darwin’s theory of evolution (ToE) specifically, has been used as a sledgehammer against religions generally, and Christianity specifically, which started with the enlightenment. This process also can be said to be the start of the wedge that initiated the success AND subsequent potential failure of western civilisation. The seeds for failure are always found in success (can lead to arrogance and belief in self over the whole – generally leads to corruption), and the seeds for success found in failure (we learn by trial and error – eliminate that which does not work and we CAN end up with that which works). One of the many paradoxes of life!
Whereas science, rationality and the ToE used to be wielded to ATTACK Christianity, I believe that we can now “flip the script”, and use it strengthen the case FOR God / Christianity. One can make a case that belief in God is MORE reasonable / rational than atheism. A very condensed version goes like this …
Every human society studied by anthropology has been found to practise religion and/or spirituality. Thus one infers that we evolved to be religious. McGilchrist’s (and many others) work on brain specialisation identifies the brain architecture that supports this conclusion – we evolved to believe in God. So you would say, That just sounds like more “God bashing” – patience grasshopper 
The ToE ALSO means that evolutionary forces “selected” for survival, NOT to understand the invisible underlying laws governing the universe. Our ability to perceive functional models of the underlying structure of reality is in fact INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE from an evolutionary perspective. If the sabre tooth tiger ate your friend and not you because you were stronger, faster to react, more observant, you got to survive and procreate. Repeat this process down the ages, and there is NOTHING (yet) in the ToE which predicts mathematics ability to model the world, Einstein’s theory of relativity, quantum mechanics and so much more. If we had many more tool making species competing with each other MAYBE the ToE could be used to predict that evolution appears to select for TRUTH. But to land HERE (with the large hadron collider et al) as the FIRST technological species is mind bogglingly IMPROBABLE according to the ToE.
Side bar. Judaism/Christianity posits an all knowing, all powerful and unknowable (in the sense that it is far too much greater than us for us to comprehend) God that sits outside of time that created the universe and is responsible for it. Science posits that the “something (or nothing)” banged more than 13 billion years ago that lead to the cosmos, everything in it and specifically, intelligent life. Science also posits that we cannot perceive any evidence of anything that occurred AFTER Planck time after the big bang. So science agrees with Christianity that “whatever” banged is unknowable by science. So commonality here – whatever lead to us is unknowable.
More side bar. The universe is a rules based, “cause and effect”, kind of joint. Common sense AND science have concluded this. Effects have causes. Our sum total of knowledge rests on this foundation. That is what THIS UNIVERSE, our school, has taught us. I argue that is not legitimate to argue that random nothingness caused LIFE – because that has never been observed by science. Thus the conclusion MUST BE that all of this had a FIRST CAUSE, based on what we have learnt through observation. We can SPECULATE that nothing created us, but that is all. So this First Cause lead to consciousness and intelligence, meaning that IT NECESSARILY CONTAINED THE ELEMENTS OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND INTELLIGENCE.
So, coup de grace time? Atheism is a belief choice – even MORE impossible (bad reasoning and language use, I know I should say HARDER) to prove than the existence of God, since theists can simply point out that you have to be able to look EVERYWHERE AT THE SAME TIME to prove the absence of anything – an impossibility for us. Thomas Nagel, the elder statesman of American philosophy admitted as much in “Mind and Cosmos”. He further admitted that he was an atheist because he DID NOT WANT there to be a god – an egoic decision.
BUT, we have shown that belief in God is scientifically attested to likely confer an ADVANTAGE in this material world, not just in the “hereafter” (Pascal’s wager). So, is it more rational to believe in God, which confers a scientifically arguable advantage, or to believe in atheism, which DOES NOT SURVIVE AT A SOCIETAL LEVEL long enough to be recognised by anthropologists?
So, the ToE leads one to inexorably conclude that belief in God is the RATIONAL, PRO SURVIVAL CHOICE! Ta daaaaa!!!
Any rejection of this logic is your ego choosing that which is not good for you – Satan manifesting! Look dispassionately at your egoic choices in your past and you will see them as that which does not support the greater good, possibly by definition. Porn, marital infidelity, all forms of abandonment of responsibility and love, etc – All driven by the selfish ego.

SteveInCO

As requested, I looked at this…and it covers lots and lots of ground.
There are a few things I see that are quite problematic, I’ll take on what seems to be the most problematic.

I argue that is not legitimate to argue that random nothingness caused LIFE – because that has never been observed by science.

You seem to have jumped from talking about the Big Bang to talking about the origin of life.
I read a lot of stuff about science, written by scientists for popular audiences. NO scientist has ever made a claim that random nothingness caused life. In fact, how life began is one of the great unanswered questions in science. (The theory of evolution does not talk about how life began, rather it addresses things that happened, once life began.) Furthermore, I’ll go on to say that no evolutionist (by which I mean the people who actually work with the theory for a living, not (perhaps) some scientist in a different field possibly spouting off about evolution out of ignorance) claims that evolution is a random process. It has random elements to it (the mutations it works off do happen randomly) but the other half of the process is distinctly NOT random, the selection of mutations that are advantageous vs. those that aren’t is not a random process, it has a lot of bias in it. It’s certainly NOTHING like (to pick one detractor’s famous bad analogy) having a tornado go through a junkyard and assemble a 747.
Many of the critiques I read about evolution do nothing but exhibit the critic’s ignorance of what the theory actually is, and my response to those critiques is to say “If evolution actually said that, I wouldn’t believe it either.”
On the plus side you’ve made some legitimate epistemic points, such as the impossibility of proving a negative. But the vast majority of atheists I have dealt with don’t claim to be able to prove there IS NO God. They make a very different claim, the claim that there’s no compelling argument that there IS a God, and that therefore, they themselves don’t believe it even though it *could* conceivably be true after all (though they do very much doubt it). Not holding a belief is different from thinking that belief must be false.
Anyhow that’s just a couple of things I saw to respond to.

pjasond

Thanks for your considered reply.
I am logically linking LIFE to the big bang, as would any materialist scientist – it is a cause and effect thing. So the materialist scientist that attempts to posit that random nothingness cause the big bang is saying the same about life, necessarily. My argument is with the validity of random nothingness as a first cause. Logical systems require a founding axiom / set of axioms. These axioms need to be grounded in reality / on observation for them to be effective. If not, they will likely not prove useful in the long run. Random nothingness does not exist in this universe as far as we know, so it is not reasonable to posit it as an founding axiom – garbage in, garbage out (GIGO).
I have obviously generalised here for the sake of brevity (short take) and do understand that the ToE is based on “random” (likely just a word we use when we do not yet (maybe never) recognise an ordering process) mutations acted on by the laws of nature – lion evolved to eat meat, is now hungry and will try to eat you. The “random” mutations also follows the laws of nature – IT IS ALL LAW, ALL THE WAY DOWN (probability distributions demonstrate this). Science actually assumes this, since it keeps looking for more laws.
My point is that atheists are actively choosing to (likely) deal themselves out of the evolutionary game – since atheism does not survive long term, according to anthropology. Thus if you accept the findings of science, and want your progeny to succeed, you rationally should seek to find a way to believe in God, because it confers a benefit to survival. Your very brain is apparently structured by this process.
The other point I forgot to add is this. The ToE does not predict maths, relativity etc., and the probability that we have these capabilities are thus vanishingly small. Yet we have them. Similarly we tend to have a belief in God – what if this belief/idea is true also, just as our ability to discover maths and effectively model the universe?

pjasond

So, I guess that I am arguing, if you want your children to thrive, AND you accept the validity of science, that you should actively seek to believe in God (and encourage your children similarly) – science seems to strongly suggest this.
Belief in God SHOULD be unifying – something sorely lacking in these times. In reality, of course, we are still deeply divided on this question as well – I hope that this unification will be emergent, eventually. Timing is a b!tch.

shannynae

This was not only interesting but fascinating and may I add, wonderful! Thank you for this info. May my RBH remain healthy and active to balance out the LBH! Hahaha

andrew1979

ok, i agree with all the poster’s here equally – and, i will say, while saying it goes without saying, this for sure includes SteveInCO (and not just because i have a fondness for rambling streams of consciousness) because everyone has something in common.
everyone sees the basic premise of the situation. when you lose your keys what do you do? you go back in time. you retrace your tracks. you go back to the place where everything was good and you had your keys last.
i truly believe this is where we are at as a country right now. there is no more civility. no more working together for the true common good. no more compromise and tolerance. no more common sense winning the day. it’s a battle to one up the next guy.
for example this election: everyone knew this was going to be big. the left obviously with a bone to pick set out to win back what they could. the republicans, the lamest duck majority you would ever occasion to meet, only barely on life support except for the massive energy from the people supporting them. so here we are. 20 some months of absolutely relentless and infinite narrative creation. unbelievable stories of corruption so blatant as to offend even the integrity of a mob boss (who frankly would have run a much tighter ship).
so here we go, election. everyone knows this is big. and what do we get? the biggest cornucopia of ridiculousness you could imagine. why? why couldn’t people say, hey i don’t agree with you ok – and you don’t agree with me – let’s take this out to the polling booth fair and square because that is our cherished right. and let the chips fall as they may. and when it’s over how about we do something about the crap and fix this place up a bit for our kids, our grandchildren, ourselves. for others to come to in the future.
no…that’s the sensible. instead one side again used this as division. one side used this as an attention grabber, to spread across all their foreign tabloid friend’s headlines “american embarrassment continues” and then say “mr president what do you think of the attitude about america? do you think they respect us again? can you answer that? sir can you answer my question?”
for people to miss what is going on here still makes me question my own mind and maybe i am the one not seeing something.
but we cannot even get along. people don’t even want to associate with each other. that is not right. it is not even close to productive. and we grind on spinning our wheels faster and faster. if you have some knowledge of tractor pulling, use that as a mental image. we cannot even get ourselves to agree to have an honest and fair vote. many excuses put forth. every answer met with another accusatory question and demand. unable to meet all demands in a real world scenario as we’ve already met so many – nope that’s not good enough.
again, one more perfect example: the wall. honestly that “idea” and “slogan”, if you will, is important and needs to be addressed, but the metaphor and the chants and the shirts and stickers – it was just a way to express verbally and visually – hey we have this belief about something:
people should not be able to break the law of this land and enter the country illegally.
very simple. i mean, i have to drive XX miles an hour on the road. i cannot go to the market and just grab some things i need. if i just walk onto another person’s “private property” and they have it posted, that can be used as a reason to be charged. if i go there accidentally hunting and it is posted i am for sure about to get some law enforcement involved. if i come over to your front yard and pitch a tent and make a campfire and eat smores, i can be forcibly removed. i cannot go to montreal canada without a specialized US id card, and i certainly cannot come back over if i happen to make it there “by chance”. the same goes for ANY other country in the world as far as i know.
noone is saying people cannot come in. nobody is saying there can be no humanitarian settlements (TPS) for a set time. nobody is saying they hate people of other races. people just want the law to be enforced on everyone else the way it is to them. and that is met with the most viscous responses. i mean, it does not even make a thimble full of sense.
we have to put aside all differences. all creeds and religions and philosophies and doctrines. we have to strip ourselves down to the very core of what we are: americans. citizens of the united states of america. we ALL have that in common. it is the tie that binds us all together in a common thread. after that, we are all unique of course. different religions, different skin, different doctrines and philosophies. that is humanity and diversity. that is healthy and good for us to be sharp and able to see things in through different lenses – but the camera body is the same. it is who we are as a nation. that is why nationalism is getting slandered.
if someone wants to be lgbt, i am all for that. if someone wants to be catholic or baptist or muslim, i respect you and your right to go to what makes you spiritually wiser. if you want to listen to certain music and ascribe to some lifestyle term like redneck, or hipster, or back in my day the punks and goths, i support you 100% as long as we can all agree on that one integral strand that binds us all back to the thread we have in common.
we can’t purge cultures and beliefs or put a cap on man’s original though and right to do so. we cannot force a collective mindset on a being of free will or it will definitely be a mistake there is no going back from.
i will just end with this, and i apologize i should have split this…but anyway:
talked to my daughter tonight. she joked with me “dad what if i became a liberal would you still love me?”
i hemmed and hawed for a few minutes rambling trying to think of something good while i sarcastically made comments to her about the state of affairs…and then i got my thoughts together and tried to do a little life lesson talk without being preachy. just said, hey you have to be open you have to see all sides, and if you choose after due diligence you want to side one way or another i can respect that…and i would love her either way of course. but then i started a story about the situation going on from start of 2016 campaign on. told her unbiased anecdotes of things and examples of some glaring topics. tried to get her to see how both sides are probably (understatement) in the wrong here, but you have to seek out and research and really be able to see beyond the facade….i said some other things (sounded pretty good) and then i think she dozed off.
but i left her with three bible verses – AND CAVEAT i am in no way “religious” in an official way. some have read my posts and know i have “experience” with a certain brand. but there are some good life lessons anyone can get, and when i mean life lessons i am talking about knowing what you are up against and knowing when you see something that is just not right.
Matthew 17:12-18
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
James 1:24
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
I Corinthians 13:9-13
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
we all need to keep the faith come what may at this point right?
sometimes it just seems with facts like those who needs logic!

wheatietoo

Thanks for that, Jason.
You’ve elaborated on exactly Why we need Law and Order…and how it is being undermined from all directions.
I can empathize with having conversations like that one with your daughter.
My own daughter once asked me about Socialism…and what did I think about it.
Here’s what I said, and perhaps it will come in handy at some point with your own daughter:
______
Imagine that you’re in class, and you’ve studied hard to get an ‘A’.
The teacher announces that:
“Since some students didn’t get passing grades or got a ‘D’, I am going to take points off the top of the student’s who got A’s…and give them to the students who got D’s and F’s. That way everyone gets a ‘C’!”
My daughter replied…”But that’s not fair!”
I told her…”That’s socialism.”
______
Since Liberals have now embraced socialism and made it their ‘solution’ for everything, your daughter is going to have to understand what she’s getting herself into…if she decides to join them.
Hope that helps.

andrew1979

great example.
and i honestly see interesting, useful and practical points in almost everything i look at. but at the same time we are imperfect, and that imperfection always leaves weaknesses and pitfalls in the best laid plans.
capitalism. democracy. socialism. monarchies. christianity. buddhism. islam. etc…
there is something to be gleaned and used and thoughts to be pondered and variations to be made.
there is sort of an equilibrium to be had. when all the strands are bound together. because one on it’s own is very susceptible to failure, but as a tightly bound rope made up of all those strands you are unbreakable. (metaphorically speaking of course, dramatized for effect)

wheatietoo

Hey, I just now noticed that I called you “Jason”.
Sorry, Andrew!
Shame on me…I have no excuse for it, that was bad.
I’m not sure how much good can be gleaned from socialism, monarchies and islam, though…since Totalitarianism is used to enforce those.
Although we do have some socialistic programs such as Social Security/Medicare.
Is that what you meant by gleaning something ‘good’?
Some would argue that SocSec/Med is an example of the ‘slippery slope’ that we shouldn’t have gone down…so I dunno.
Those programs do help a lot of people that need it.
I think that something that used to bind us all together was The Draft.
People from all walks of life were put together to learn how to defend our country.
It was called the ‘great equalizer’.
Eliminating the Draft was one of the many things that has led to the changes we’re now seeing.

andrew1979

yes, that is exactly what i mean. looking at the deep meaning of all those examples to find the origin of the idea. the grains of good – maybe only one tiny teeny thing.
of course the political evolution in society changes all through history, and those ideas and beliefs that cannot stand on their own are removed or evolved – no doubt.
as for religions, they are the scariest of them all – the ultimate sheep in wolf’s clothing. (no offense wolfman1776!)
and the totalitarian aspect of those you pointed out – absolutely – totalitarianism is a bad/evil practice that co-opts certain institutions and perverts them for it’s own benefit.
generally i am saying being open minded to knowledge, being able to filter through propaganda, being able to learn a lesson from something you would never have thought you could, all those things i feel are important.

Deplorable Patriot

I have wondered for a while, if this isn’t the real Reason why there has been such a concerted effort to destroy Christianity…and it’s place in our country.
After some serious consideration and learning a whole lot about the last 2,000 years and the history of not just Christianity, but determining what books were accepted as Scripture by who and when and why, I’ve come to the conclusion that the final target for Satan and his minions both on earth and not, is one specific thing that I hesitate to mention given the company here. Right now, that is the main target even within Christianity as we’re fighting amongst ourselves. It is NOT a universally accepted part of Christianity, either.
As far as the USA being founded as a Christian nation, there’s aspects of that, that’s for sure, especially in following the law in the treatment of others. However, as Christ echoed the Pentateuch and said that the greatest commandment was to love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul, and added the tag line of love your neighbor as yourself, I think it is safe to say some of the practices have been ignored by those who profess the faith.

andrew1979

interesting. not 100% positive where you are going but i have had a few intesting talks with some close acquaintences over the last year or so where we discussed things some of them felt was going on “in the spiritual background” so to speak.

Deplorable Patriot

Oh, it’s a spiritual battle alright.

NebraskaFilly

“c) Others say that our rights come from the Bill of Rights. But this is a pernicious error. To say that the Bill of Rights “confers” our rights; or to discuss “the full scope” of any of the First Ten Amendments, constitutes a restriction on, and reduction of, the rights given by God. To say that the Bill of Rights is the source of our rights, diminishes them from their proper status as unalienable gifts from God, and transforms them into privileges which we hold, or not, according to whether they are recognized in a document written by men; and according to the interpretations of judges!”
https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/category/definitions-and-basic-concepts/

Sylvia Avery

This is just incredibly vile. Dr. Carson is from Detroit, talk about the local boy making good. You’d think they’d WANT to have inspirational figures offered for respect and emulation!
“The Detroit School Board voted Wednesday to open consideration into whether a handful of DPS schools should have their “offensive” names changed — including Benjamin Carson High School of Science and Medicine, named for former presidential candidate, accomplished surgeon, and Housing and Urban Development director, Dr. Ben Carson.
The board will seek comment over the next several months on whether to change Carson High, which was named for Dr. Ben Carson before he became active in politics, and well before he became an ally of President Donald Trump, something the Detroit School Board apparently doesn’t appreciate….:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/38415/detroits-school-board-considering-renaming-ben-emily-zanotti

wheatietoo

Yes…”vile” is a good word for it, Syl.
How could anyone be against dear Ben Carson, one of the gentlest souls out there.
His accomplishments should be applauded, no matter which ‘side’ of the political spectrum you are on.

andrew1979

before carson had the misfortune of becoming an “ally” of President Donald Trump – my daughter was actually assigned to read his book in one of classes. public school. dr. carson was an inspiration.
not so much now i guess.
probably should rename that building i suppose…i mean, he’s not inspirational anymore.

churchmouse

They also want to rename Frederick Douglass High School!
Frederick Douglass is one of the best role models for black youngsters. I read his autobiography when I was in high school. A very moving book from a very accomplished man.

andrew1979

frederick douglass also? i will have to read on that i thought for sure he was a protected african american icon…what is it coming to these days.

churchmouse

Frederick Douglass, Booker T Washington and George Washington Carver (he kept the South fed in peanuts and peanut derivatives) are now, sadly, unknown.
Yet, 40+ years ago, along with the forgotten black military, they were heroes to the black minority.
Sadly, no longer.

SteveInCO

Leftism rots everything it touches.
Cold anger, cold hatred.

Sylvia Avery

Yes. Right there with you.

SteveInCO

Absolutely, KUDOs for OANN!!!
I imagine other networks’ reporters privately agree with them, that Acosta is a flaming jackass who crowds them out…but won’t speak out for fear of losing their jobs.

Sylvia Avery

Yeah, it doesn’t take much imagination to give Acosta the once over and figure IRL he’d be a guy who you’d just hate because he was so annoying. Even the pressitutes must feel that way. Ha, ha.

SteveInCO

Who knows, he may be nice in person when he’s not being paid to be an a$$wipe.
On the other hand, he’s so good at it, it probably comes from 24/7 practice.

Sylvia Avery

More strange tales from the crypt, er, I mean the mid term election.
I thought Mia Love lost her seat in Utah? Apparently not for sure….
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/utah-republican-mia-love-sues-to-halt-vote-count-in-tight-race/
And then what are those wacky ‘gonians (as they are known in these parts) up to now?
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/15/oregon-probe-two-people-submitting-late-ballots/

Sylvia Avery

Caravan Stories:
US Army fixed this problem with concertina wire. Which they have now WELDED into place. Love it!
AND apparently the invaders have invaded the heck out of Tijuana and overwhelmed all available services. The locals aren’t happy. They are yelling at them to go home, and (ahem…a catchphrase that could catch on!) “Mexico First!”
I don’t have the citations for this but I read it earlier today that shockingly 🙂 the migrants were lied to about how easy it would be to just cross over into nirvana and stroll our streets of gold with their Obama phones, free cars, and all the housing and food assistance they could ever want. They now have frowny faces and sad feelz about being used and exploited.
Also, with all the border hardening our military has done there is some concern that the invaders will bull rush the ports of entry to force their way in so they are getting tear gas ready. This may not end well.
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2018/11/15/jeering-first-wave-migrants-who-reach-u-s-border-and-scale-fence-met-with-a-rude-awakening-693771
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-caravan/get-out-some-mexico-border-residents-reject-migrant-arrivals-idUSKCN1NK2D8

Sylvia Avery

More border/caravan stuff. I was feeling pretty good about the concertina wire now welded on top of that fence at San Diego until I read this.
That area is a frequent target of this group that has organized previous caravans and it was kinda obvious they would go back there, but there was no concertina wire in place until AFTER the invaders got their photo op of how easily they could climb the fence and jump over without any trouble and then jump back without any consequences. Why? Lots of why questions after reading this.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/11/are_we_looking_at_some_real_dhs_incompetence_at_the_tijuana_line.html

wheatietoo

Yeah, Syl…our President deserves better that this.
WE deserve better than this.
But both our President and we-the-sane-people have got big headwinds blowing against us.
The globalist-owned lackeys on both sides of congress, don’t want border control.
They don’t want our immigration laws enforced and they don’t care that We have to deal with the lawlessness in our daily lives.
Arrgh, It really pisses me off!

daughnworks247

Amen. The lawlessness and bad policy does not matter to those who live behind high walls, and they keep their cozy ruffled nest at the behest of their donors.
Meanwhile, my little Catholic Church, started by my inlaws in 1972, is so overrun with illegals, we can no longer go. The organ in that church was dedicated to my father-in-law, purchased with donations to the fund upon his death.
About a week ago, I let the dog out and heard her yelp, strangely. I immediately opened the door and walked out to the side porch to see what was the matter. The dog was at the fence and barking “that strange bark”. We have a waist high, wrought iron fence, 115 years old, which surrounds the property. There was a young boy who had a stick and was trying to hit my dog.
I yelled at the boy to get his attention, thinking he would stop asap, when seeing an adult. Yet he did NOT stop swinging. Like a bolt of lightning, I was off the porch and went after him, crossing the driveway.
He had an odd accent.
Guess what?
He’s from Somalia, freshman in high school, and already cruel to animals.
The realization hit me like a truck. I’m still not over it.

wheatietoo

Wow. Sorry that is happening to you, Daughn.
The problem with letting in so many people…en masse…is that they group together and have no desire to assimilate into our culture, or obey our laws.
They come here as invaders to prey on us and gradually take over.
It is dangerous to our country as a whole, to let in so many people at once.
It is suicidal.
And the Catholic Church doesn’t seem to care…not about Americans who have lived here for generations and worked hard to get what they have, and to build this country.
The Church only seems to care about bringing in more parishioners.

daughnworks247

Catholic Church is now too dependent on federal dollars to resettle illegals and legal immigrants. It’s corrupted their mission.

Deplorable Patriot

CATHOLIC CHARITES is into that. They are not really a part of the administration in many places. It’s part of the effort to divide and conquer, make men disgusted so that they will leave.

NebraskaFilly

Not just the Catholic Church – they get more $$$ but the Lutheran Church is just as bad. This need/greed for $$$ has also caused the vast majority of churches of many denominations to water down their preaching/teaching. I attended the Lutheran school in Norfolk and discipline was very strict. Years later, I worked at the museum in Norfolk – every year on NE’s birthday, groups of grade-school children from most of the schools in town tour the museum and share a birthday cake and games. The LEAST disciplined kids and the WORST behaved were those from MY parochial school! I was so disappointed!

Sylvia Avery

Daughn reading this made me feel sick to my stomach. I’ve watched my own state change so very much I feel like I am living in a foreign country. Places so dear to me because they are so full of memories of my family, not to mention their graves in the cemetaries. But I am as a stranger in a strange land, even though my family helped settle this state.

daughnworks247

Agree with you Sylvia.
It’s weird. In my late 20’s, I was pretty serious with a guy who was living in Morris Township, just outside of NYC. We even bought a vacation home together in Vermont. I was living in Miami at the time and we were commuting. We started talking marriage and were shopping for houses in Morris Plains or Westchester (found one I loved). We took a break and went to a mall to do some shopping….. and something happened that changed everything.
I saw all the suburban women, with their kids on leashes, kind of like an old long telephone cord. They had to keep track of their kids so the kids would not be abducted. I was mortified. About the same time, Adam Walsh was kidnapped in the Miami area about 10 miles from where I lived. It made me reevaluate how I wanted to live, marry, and raise children.
I cashed out, moving back to MS, where my “future” kids could grow up under a watchful eye of concerned neighbors in a safe community. I wanted my kids to be able to roam a little bit, fish, catch fireflies, and play in the front yard or ride a bike. It was perfect for my kids, who are now grown and almost gone.
Now, it’s changing.

Sylvia Avery

I’m glad you saw what you wanted and were able to produce that for your kids. That is wonderful right there! It will probably be a lot harder for them to do that. We have somehow made a world for them that is not what we would have wanted or envisioned.

SteveInCO

I’ve watched my own state change so very much I feel like I am living in a foreign country.

I didn’t realize you lived in Colorado!
(All graveyard humor aside, the sad truth is, it could probably be any of about 30 different states…)

Sylvia Avery

Colorado is one of the states I’ve actually never been and always wanted to. I’ve read so many stories set there, read so much about it and it always sounded and looked so beautiful.
I may never make it there, but it has hurt my heart to see what has become of it. It feels lost, and I grieve over that the same way I grieve at the loss of California. I don’t want to lose any more of our country.

andrew1979

be globalist. want agenda furthered. create crisis. agenda furthered.
be american. have an opinion. wear maga hat. hat stolen dr. pepper in your face.
i mean, it’s the constant, and in my opinion, very lame story over and over. the narrative has been being hammered to us non stop. all anti one way. criticize the voice. criticize the people. spread strife and discontent rumors, chaos in the white house, trump eats mcdonalds and drinks diet coke while melania goes on tinder and she hates him. make us appear to look bad to foreign counties. make balloons in caricature of an elected leader. veteran’s day controversy, dreamers, paper towels, space force, rocket man, now attack the wife, make elections an embarrassment, tax cuts a crumb, jobs americans don’t want to do! create a border disaster and panic in churches and schools.
it’s all so tiresome at this point.

Sylvia Avery

The City of Seattle has become one huge stinking liberal slag heap, sadly. It doesn’t get much media attention because it is crowded out by even worse San Francisco and even crazier Portland. But the socialist on the City Council and the fools who try to outdo her have enacted all kinds of insane lefty policies, most recently a head tax which they had to repeal because businesses were going to leave.
Homelessness is rampant and tolerated to the highest degree so that you have people living in tents on the sidewalks and living in RVs lining the streets. Cemeteries, businesses, parks…you can’t go anywhere without finding syringes, people having sex, human waste, unleashed and unsupervised pitbulls or other dogs, and the like.
The situation has become rather, ah, fraught you could say as the homelessness is pushing out further and further with people living on the streets and camping in the yards (uninvited) of more people further out from the city’s core.
This fellow decides to run for City Council because the city is in deep doo doo and needs some new blood. But look and see what happens to him…
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/11/seattle-city-council-candidate-drops-from-race-following-vile-racist-threats-from-the-far-left-to-his-wife-and-children/

wheatietoo

He was one-of-their-own, so to speak…
He works as a videographer for PBS & Netflix and his wife works for Microsoft.
But he dared to speak the truth about the City Council’s bad ideas…and he got eviscerated for it.
The Left has gotten so stubborn about resisting any ideas that might seem ‘conservative’, that they are willing to live in squalor and decay.

Sylvia Avery

Well, it may be a stretch but this brings out the MAGA in me! I complain about immigration a lot but mostly illegal immigration. I personally would support a complete halt to all immigration until we can (to quote PDJT) figure out what the heck is going on. Who do we seriously want to come here and why, and then only let them in.
But meanwhile…. Billy Idol becomes an American citizen! With a rebel yell MORE MORE MORE! Ah, those were the days.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/billy-idol-becomes-us-citizen-holds-flag-as-he-takes-oath

Chicago->Arizona

Julian Assange: Wikileaks founder has been charged in US, prosecutors accidentally reveal
Wikileaks said on social media that the US Justice Department had “accidentally revealed existence of sealed charges (or draft of them) against [Mr Assange] in apparent cut-and-paste error”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/julian-assange-charged-us-wikileaks-prosecutors-court-filing-ecuador-embassy-a8636336.html

Sylvia Avery

This is interesting. Could this have something to do with the Big Happenings Q alluded to? supposedly DOJ wasn’t supposed to let this slip (hm….).
The WaComPost has an article on it, if you can stand to read it.
“WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has been charged under seal, prosecutors inadvertently revealed in a recently unsealed court filing — a development that could significantly advance the probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election and have major implications for those who publish government secrets….:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/julian-assange-has-been-charged-prosecutors-reveal-in-inadvertent-court-filing/2018/11/15/9902e6ba-98bd-48df-b447-3e2a4638f05a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5cdf7e481dbf

Chicago->Arizona

comment image

wheatietoo

Well, that’s not good.
Could it be a left-over indictment from the O-administration, I wonder?
Hillary wanted Assange arrested…she wanted it bad…probably still does.
HusseinO probably wants Assange arrested too, for the release of all that stuff during the 2016 campaign.

Chicago->Arizona

wheatietoo,
“Well, that’s not good.”
There are many angles that can be leveraged with Assange – good and bad.
He holds a lot of cards that can help drain the swamp.
Seth Rich was aware of DNC election fraud (Bernie).
The timing of this is interesting considering the current DNC election fraud.
I vaguely remember a few months ago were he wanted to meet with a congressional committee.
Was the copy and paste mistake intentional ?
Right now he is silenced – no internet access , no voice.
Will be interesting how this plays out.

tomf

Chicago, Yours is the first comment I have come across that sheds some positive light on this alleged indictment.
As far as I know Mr. A is about the truth.

Chicago->Arizona

tomf,
Maybe this is the Q big drop.
Assange despises Hillary. Remember , when Hillary “joked” about droning him. It looks like the charges were filed in 2010 (Obama era).
I believe Seth Rich leaked to Assange then was murdered by MS 13. I recall two MS 13 members were found dead in the outlining vicinity of Seth’s murder.
The Hillary’s deep state contracts two MS 13 members to kill Seth. Subsequently ,the deep state meets with the MS 13 members at a remote location and kills them…deep state hands washed.
Assange has the goods.
I think it is in the best interest of Assange to help President Trump to save himself.

andrew1979

that is his only shot and maybe our only shot atvsome of this truth. seriously wikileaks knows all the tiny details.

NebraskaFilly

Rohrabacher from CA was trying to set up a meeting between Julian and PDJT but was prevented by the Gatekeepers, whoever that may be. All Julian asked was immunity from arrest.

Chicago->Arizona

andrew1979

one of the most nortorious robin hood figues in years. able to sway an entire election. democrats loved and wanted him protected for years. now the docs surrace accidentaly. un redacted.
seems plausible.

wheatietoo

I learned this from lurking over at Qresearch…
Q has mentioned/referenced “The Sum Of All Fears” several times.
‘The Sum Of All Fears’ is a Tom Clancy book, as you may know.
It is about a false-flag nuclear detonation, done to make the US and Russia go to war.
There was a movie made of it:comment image
.
Did you know…that Tom Clancy dedicated that book to Admiral Mike Rogers?comment image
.
Here is Clancy’s dedication to Admiral Rogers:
“For Mike and Peggy Rogers, a sailor and his lady – and all the men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces, for the noblest of ideas have always been protected by warriors.”
This is just another one of those things that make you go…Hmm.
Thought I would share.

Sylvia Avery

I recently watched the movie, because of Q. I read the book years ago. I didn’t recall the Clancy dedication to Rogers, and it wouldn’t have meant anything to me way back then, anyway. I find THAT a pretty fascinating bit of information.

redlegleader68

wheatietoo … I have all of Clancy’s books in hardback, 1st editions. For those interested, DO NOT watch the movie: Hollywierd changed many, many aspects of the original story to be PC. I strongly recommend reading it in light of what’s happening today. Just sayin’ … 😉

NebraskaFilly

I also had all of his books until a few years ago, when I donated the majority of my books (20 boxes I had hauled more than once between VA and NE). Finally gave up my dream of having a library in my home.

Deplorable Patriot

Won’t comment on the book itself, but I thought the Sum of Fears was knowing that the unhinged enemy had a nuclear weapon.

SteveInCO

Tom Clancy’s work is often cited as prophetic, but there’s definitely one thing he got wrong. He posits the leadership of the intel community and federal law enforcement as being dedicated patriots, for the most part. Only in “Clear and Present Danger” does he depict corruption at the high levels of those agencies.
Nevertheless I remain a huge fan of his stuff.
I still owe vengeance to the person who loaned me Hunt For Red October during finals week in college.

SteveInCO

I have both the book and the movie and of course the big PC correction (changing out the villains in the book for “neo Nazis” (Hollywood can be relied on to use the Nazis as villains even where a different villain would be more appropriate) didn’t make me happy.
I did listen to the commentary track that was on the DVD one time; Tom Clancy was a part of it. He actually griped about how the producer, et. al., hadn’t bothered to read his book. (Zzzzzzzzing!)

churchmouse

Sylvia,
You got a message from TestName7 on today’s Presidential thread. It seemed a bit strange to me, but, if you haven’t seen it and want to, I’ll copy and paste it below.

andrew1979

TestName7 is an intesting character from past observance. i thought it was like a wild moderator fooling with people at times or someone with some method of slight gaming (hacking?) the wordpress platform. total speculation.

churchmouse

Yes, I agree.
That was why I did not want to copy and paste the message to Sylvia without asking.
It’s nothing ‘bad’, just a bit sarky and stupid.

churchmouse

Tone a bit argumentative on today’s Presidential thread.
Someone who, I think, only started commenting recently jumped all over Gunny.
Cripto also getting attacked by one or more commenters.
General sentiment in the comments: nothing will be done against the Swamp, Whitaker not taking enough action, Mattis is crummy, it’s the Bush II administration all over again.
Sad.
I didn’t comment today. But if I had, the following is what I would have said:
Whitaker’s only been AAG for a little over a week. Mattis wants the military to be able to cope with weather events. Bush II people in place because there aren’t many Republicans in DC to begin with, IMHO.
What do you think?

para59r

Seeds of Discord being planted there and elsewhere. Not new but things certainly seem to be coming to a head and loss of unity in thought would do much to facilitate something nefarious.

churchmouse

Exactly.
The Treepers need to stand strong.

churchmouse

So thankful that you have created this site for us.
May God continue to bless you and yours, wolfmoon1776.

churchmouse

Whoa!
Look forward to reading more, if possible.

Deplorable Patriot

General sentiment in the comments: nothing will be done against the Swamp, Whitaker not taking enough action, Mattis is crummy, it’s the Bush II administration all over again.
Projection, Lady McBethism, wishful thinking, trying to divide and conquer. If Mattis and Whitaker are under “friendly” fire they probably are turning into boulders that the swamp can’t move.

Deplorable Patriot

Why is HTML not working right for me?

SteveInCO

Russian hacking.
(Sorry, I just had to do it.)

SteveInCO

I’m able to use [em]. [strong] and [blockquote] (only with angle brackets, of course). There are probably others (I should test out [code] sometime….)
this should look like code
Well, I’ll find out if it works in about five seconds….

SteveInCO

It seems that the really basic HTML tags that format text are the ones that work. Trying to insert a title or header…I’d guess not (and I really don’t feel like trying).

thinkthinkthink

I’ve been using [b][/b] and [i][/i] (with angle brackets) but had not tried html markup. Blockquote should come in handy. 😉

SteveInCO

I know at least some places won’t take [b] and [i] so I don’t bother trying.

wheatietoo

Hmm…I’m going to test drive that ‘blockquote’ thingy to see if it works for me:

Did it work?

wheatietoo

Okay, that sort of worked.
Now testing ‘code’:
Did this work?

churchmouse

Let’s hope so, if I read your comment correctly.

para59r

Concerning POTUS’s and FLOTUS’s visist the the marine barracks in DC. Could there be more behind the reason for that?
Concerning “Watch California”, the president will be there today.
Concerning the hoard, it seems they will wait as mentioned above for more numbers to arrive. The waiting seems planned and agreed to in advance which denotes a plan. Somehow I get the feeling the MSM will start to guilt trip us into taking them in. Thanksgiving and all. However it will likely get more volatile before that date.
Plans that have a larger goal normally have options. Option A they ultimately are allowed in. Rush keeps talking about another 5 million to follow if they do. Option B is they are rebuffed at which time they spread out along the border and continue to attempt to get in. There are already members of the Hoard that have stated that this is what they will do if they can’t get in in mass. If they are rebuffed you would have to consider they were met with force to keep them out. That some form of violence ensued. Keep in mind also the Narco’s have stock pile’s of weapons and access to those may be part of Option B.
If you consider the fraudulent elections and hoard at the border both can be used to whip up a frenzy of insurrection if melded together. Couple all that with the untold number of undocumented aliens in the country and antifa types along with the sway leftists professors have over their students as a short list, it would be a good idea to watch your six.

churchmouse

Well said.
There’s real potential for all of that to happen.
Prayers for the Great Republic.

para59r

Something else to consider. The caravan only recently made fast leaps forward. Why? The backers of the caravan likely had the capability to get the caravan here during the election but they waited till now to move them quickly.
Perhaps the intention was to get them to the border during the aftermath of the elections all along.
Soros is involved in moving the caravan so that means deep state is involved. The MSM and Socials are part of Deep state. Couple that in with what democratic strong holds can add to the fight and add that into my post above.
Remember they tried and continue to try to take down a sitting president. All this would just be a different approach.

daughnworks247

Here is Carl Junker, he’s in charge of the European Union, and he’s advocating for a European Army.
Note: He’s wearing one black shoe and one brown shoe. He can’t even dress himself. Think the EU needs new leadership?
https://twitter.com/V_of_Europe/status/1063402361752829952

SteveInCO

Because he didn’t dare wear a brown shirt.

phoenixRising

He’s an alcoholic… is drunk most of the time. (not being unkind, just citing the facts)

Deplorable Patriot

I wasn’t sure where to put this, here or on the OMG thread as I really believe this is related to the human trafficking subject.
This week, a painting by a living artist sold for $90 million at auction. My inside the beltway lib relatives who posted the article elsewhere were outraged at the price. Personally, I was outraged at 1) how pathetic the artwork was, and 2) the subject matter of a young man swimming underwater in nothing but a white speedo or tighty whities while a clothed man looks on from above.
These people are sick, and the “art” work they are using…. Ugh. And note in the article that the buyer is not named.
https://qz.com/quartzy/1466239/david-hockney-painting-sold-for-record-90-million-at-christies/?fbclid=IwAR1BdgAvBeTbJc6yvgew9jUChVqbdRn78rRY0ptciQcWqyJmBnV5c-76Ym0

SteveInCO

It’s not uncommon for huge auction bids to be made anonymously, and (regardless of the item) it’s safer for the buyer; it’s harder for someone to target them for theft (or much, much worse) knowing he has valuables there.
That being said, this particular transaction sounds pretty sick so there’s a not-so-angelic motivation for the secrecy, perhaps, on top of the normal one.

andrew1979

using artwork purchases to launder money is a classic scheme. one of the roles in the piza gt stuff the selling and trading of art to make payments to people and have them seem like for a legitimate reason.

Deplorable Patriot

I know about the money laundering, I was just floored that my lib relatives objected, not that they would understand the significance.

MysticRose80

I don’t know if Cernovich is playing Devil’s Advocate or dropping his mask:

In case you had any doubts about his real agenda. https://t.co/0PXHi6fY6o— Praying Medic (@prayingmedic) November 16, 2018

Elizabeth Carter

Mystic Rose That is very interesting. Thanks for the link.

andrew1979

absolutely right wolf. and frankly as you are aware you can trust nobody. social media and the loke have destroyed the ability of most to have any common sense at all. the truth you will find mostly still comes from unentangled informed anonymous minds.

andrew1979

well said especially since i left much to be read between the lines of my do not trust comment. we have to trust ourselves and what we feel is relavant. keep it up my friend.

pjasond

Well, you have no choice but to trust him (with all hsi foibles), because in the 2016 binary choice, DJT / Crooked, you had no choice BUT DJT. There is no scenario that I can conceive of that would make Crooked a better choice than DJT 🙂

wheatietoo

Did Cerno do this for attention…for drama?
Because he’s certainly getting a lot of attention for it.
Over 9000 replies now and most of them are blasting him for the ‘making excuses’ remark.
I haven’t been keeping up with Cerno lately…is he Anti-Q?
I know that Posobiec is.

Deplorable Patriot

That definitely confirms some things for me.

Elizabeth Carter

Jim Acosta will get his press pass back.
From now on at every press conference, Acosta should receive an answer to 2 questions if he is not rude. He should be told the limit for all is 2 questions. If he asks a 3rd question, President Trump or Sarah should just turn the Press Conference over to him and walk out.
The MSM makes up the news to suit themselves anyway so why interfere in the process. Tell them they can have the room until … and then they must leave.

SteveInCO

As I understand it, it’s a temporary stay until the judge can hear arguments about the case and decide whether the WH is entitled to revoke the pass.
They’ll be trying to argue that Acosta didn’t get some chance to plead his case before the pass was yanked; i.e., that his FIFTH amendment rights were violated.

Linda

Just because he has a pass doesn’t mean he gets to ask any questions. There are plenty of people there in the press pool that aren’t called on in any given press conference. I would just let him sit there being the jerk he is. Or better yet, don’t let him in period. I don’t care what a judge says. There is no constitutional right to a press pass. What are they going to do? Arrest POTUS for it? Let them try! I think it’s time to start ignoring some of these ridiculous court decrees that don’t have any relation to the rule of law. The dems are only doing this to slow POTUS down. Don’t let them do it!

Linda

Incidentally, this is the Cloward-Piven strategy of overwhelming the system until it doesn’t work at all. This is what the left is doing right now. With judicial fiats, with election fraud all over the country, with thousands of illegal hordes at the border. They’re trying to overwhelm President Trump’s ability to govern.

Sylvia Avery

He could attend until the end of time. Heck, have a welcome back, Jimbo party for him. SHS could make him a pie. And I’d never ever ever ever call on him again. Ever. But that’s just me.

Deplorable Patriot

And poetic justice at that.

SteveInCO

As far as I know, this hasn’t been confirmed.
But I sure hope it’s true.
Wait: they can get a gig at the Graybar hotel, somewhere. That, I’d like to see.

NebraskaFilly

Yeah, I was going to add a note to that effect but figured people would see that. Thanks. Hope it is true as well. Given all the blue dots……

NebraskaFilly

Speaking of a good laugh – some of you may recall that, for a period of time, I would post jokes and funny stories on the Open Thread at CTH. I have others but they are, shall we say, “off-color” jokes or contain some vulgarity. I wonder if people here would be amenable to me posting some? Don’t want to bruise any particular sensibilities here or insult anyone. Here is a sample – Wolfie, delete if you feel it inappropriate; however, take under consideration, please, that my 12 year old daughter heard this on the school bus and passed it on to me. After cracking up laughing, I very sternly instructed her NOT to tell that joke again:
What do you get when you cross Raggedy Ann and the Pillsbury Dough Boy?
A red-headed b*tch with a yeast infection.
*snort*

SteveInCO

I always thought WordPress’s handling of likes versus replies was bass ackwards.
I was able to set up email notification of both likes and replies, or ONLY likes. But I’d really rather see only e-mails for replies. There’s really no way to respond to a like and I don’t need my email bombarded by them (the notifier in WP itself is quite adequate). (Its even worse than that; some people simply go down a page and “like” everything they see, so a like is basically meaningless from them.)
[In fact, I might even go so far as to say I would get countless emails like that.]
But if someone actually takes the time to reply to something I wrote, they may well expect and/or deserve a response so I wanted to know about those. Of course enough people reply to me here that my e-mail would get swamped with those as well.

Plain Jane

I am replying but not “Like” ing. 🙂
Ok, I will stop harassing you now Steve. Sorry, my inner imp has to come out periodically. Hee, hee.

SteveInCO

Hey, I am asking for it today; I seem to be especially full of snark. No trouble with the Plain Jane Imp here.

Plain Jane

Thanks Steve. So I take it to mean I can torment you periodically. (Saying that with a big, big grin on my face.)
I’m an unrepentant jester.

SteveInCO

Sounds reasonable. 🙂

NebraskaFilly

I will do my best to keep it somewhat circumspect but if anyone here is insulted or upset by something I post, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE – feel free to let me know, preferably in a pleasant way, and I will promptly desist. If there is a general consensus that jokes are not appropriate at TQT, I will not be hurt or insulted. Thanks, everyone.

A.D. Everard

NebraskaFilly, most of us here are open-minded adults, I should think, and somewhat hardened by these trying times. There so much current ugliness in the world for people to take REAL offense at, surely anyone offended by jokes (coarse or not) would be snowflakes (okay, or maybe not, whatever).
If any dear sensitive soul feels ruffled, maybe the trigger word “JOKE” might alert them to jump over whatever is coming.
I vote for jokes. Laughing keeps us strong and in good cheer while we wait for more winning. 🙂

NebraskaFilly

Thanks.

Plain Jane

I love jokes. After being around for 7 decades +, I think I have heard every word there is. Funny is funny. Not offended by anything except blasphemy against my Lord God which I’m sure no one here would ever do.

Elizabeth Carter

Nebraska Filly, That is such a Presidential way of handling this type of behavior.
President Trump has said exactly this at his rallies. “What did you say? Repeat it?” He repeats it for the audience. Laughs. and says,” you are hereby reprimanded. Don’t ever say that again.”
That is a very funny joke your daughter shared. I always say if we can’t laugh about what is going on, we would spend all our time crying. The good news is that the opposition hates being laughed at and we find great relief in a good giggle now and then.

NebraskaFilly

It is SO important to laugh now and then, IMO.

pjasond

The old saying about laughter being the BEST medicine may be over egging a bit, but it is certainly up there with the other excellent medicines!!

Elizabeth Carter

I posted my suggestion on here at 12:11pm today and just watched this:
Trump Warns Media He And Staff Will Leave If Disrespected At Press Conferences
1:04 PM 11/16/2018 | Politics
Saagar Enjeti | White House Correspondent
https://dailycaller.com/2018/11/16/trump-warns-media-leave-disrespected-press-conferences/
Did I have a premonition? Is the answer just obvious? Did someone read our comments we make here in the WH and liked the idea?
Whatever happened, I loved it. LOL

SteveInCO

I don’t know if you had a premonition but please pick five numbers between 1 and 69….

Elizabeth Carter

That is obvious 🙂
11 16 18 6 66
Remember me if you get rich!!

SteveInCO

LOL. But it could just as easily be 11 8 20 16 45, couldn’t it?

Elizabeth Carter

You will have to make an executive decision on that. You could do both and just take a chance.

A.D. Everard

Don’t know. If he and his staff leave, the press will use it to their advantage. “Trump runs away from questions” type of thing. I’d prefer them to boot out the disrespectful.

Sylvia Avery

I love it!

SteveInCO

Huh. I thought fascists could make the trains run on time.

NebraskaFilly

I have to say, all those years I lived in NOVA, the biggest problem comes from so very many people who are not natives to colder regions of the US and the world and are completely unable to function in heavy rain, much less snow! The panic they undergo is visceral.

SteveInCO

When I was a kid, the Metro was a gleaming example of what mass transit could be.
I visited NoVa in 2016 and the Metro was a fricking disaster, with track repairs forcing trains to be on one track only for months on end, apparently. Judging from comments from friends in the area, it was like this a LOT.

NebraskaFilly

I never used mass transport. Out of close to 30 years in NOVA and traveling to DC, I was on the subway maybe twice? It was exceedingly rare for me to go anywhere w/o my own set of wheels. Got caught out too many times not to do so.

SteveInCO

My dad told me once, when I was a kid, that if you take a car into DC you might as well just burn it because there’s no place to park. (And this was a LONG time before the Antifa dirtbags were there to burn it for you.)
If you actually have a JOB in DC I imagine it’s different, but I’ve always been a tourist.
As a total aside, are you by any chance in the high prairie part of Nebraska?

NebraskaFilly

North central – about 90 miles from Yankton, SD. I never had a problem parking in DC, nor did I ever have my vehicle messed with. However, it was VERY rare for me to need to park there since I avoided it as much as possible. When I was working for Scheibel Technology, I had to go to the Egyptian embassy occasionally, which was in NW DC, almost into MD. I hated that trip!

SteveInCO

I can imagine it sucked, going all the way across the center of the metro area to get there (or did you take the beltway?).
I would imagine that far out parking wasn’t nearly the issue it was for me. Our contexts are quite different.
My travels to DC were either as a tourist, or very occasionally work within sight of the Potomac (Crystal City). Parking on the Mall is iffy on a good day, and I didn’t even try to look into the situation in Crystal city as my hotel was literally one metro stop away from the work.
In your shoes I wouldn’t have taken the Metro either, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was no station within five miles of the Egyptian embassy, though it is pretty good for the Mall area (when it works).

NebraskaFilly

I worked in Baileys Crossroads, Falls Church, Arlington, Reston, Warrenton, Centreville, Alexandria, etc. And, of course, I was stationed at the Pentagon from ’77 – ’79.

NebraskaFilly

I went through DC, not around the Beltway, when I went to Egyptian embassy.

Deplorable Patriot

Yesterday, when we were in the midst of getting it here in the Mississippi-Missouri Rivers neck of the woods, the place shut down. And I mean shut down, even the univeristies, and Bayer (Monsanto) campuses were closed. By noon, it was done, we were dug out, and today everything went back to normal. There’s even bread, milk and eggs back on the grocery store shelves.
The trains running on time… that’s another matter altogether.

Plain Jane

In the realm of jokes, I made a comment over on today’s PT thread in response to someone bashing PT’s lawyers over the accost-her stuff. I said something like: Look, squirrels, but in the meantime the pedos are being taken down and I believe the takedown will be all the way up the food chain. Thank you patriot Jeff for all your hard work.
In that post I linked to wqth post about the pedo take down. Can’t find anywhere there where it got posted. Even did a search on my pc. Don’ know if it went to trash or bin because of “Jeff,” or wqth link.
I just posted this and my post, posted right away.
This picture is ROTFL funny. https://iotwreport.com/good-boy/

Elizabeth Carter

I am still giggling. Somehow it just makes Jim so much more approachable.

Plain Jane

Most of Big Fur Hat’s photoshops are very funny. This one is outstanding.

SteveInCO

Especially when one considers one of the most common operations that would cause a dog to have that collar put on…

SteveInCO

Hah. I just thought of something.
Remember the advice (if you’re worried about public speaking) to imagine your entire audience is naked?
Here’s how to approach Accosta without retching: Imagine he’s wearing this collar…and it’s filled with concrete.

SteveInCO

I find that it’s generally necessary to scroll down to get to the actual comment (damn twitter inclusions are ill-behaved; they don’t include their sizes so the page doesn’t know how to size itself on initial load).
It’s the one by you (redlegleader68), at 7:38 AM and it’s a “top level” (not indented one) in case anyone else is having the same problem.

andrew1979

where can we order the “treacherous in our midst” and “lord trump” tshirts? 🙂

Disney Echo

Here is another Q/Present Trump confirmation:

https://twitter.com/m2madness/status/1063522830350991361?s=21

Disney Echo

*President, not Present, autocorrect!

SteveInCO

Seriously this seems like an awful “reach” as far as it being evidence.
And it would require that Q [whoever it might be] was prescient and knew the results of the election (including fraud) well before the election, which PDJT isn’t and couldn’t. (He’s good…he ain’t THAT good though!) Honestly, to me, coincidence is a likelier explanation of this specific thing. There are lots of numbers in the world, explicit and implicit, something like this “correlation” is bound to happen somewhere, it’s just a matter of finding it and saying “lookeee here!”
I’ll be honest, I don’t know what to make of Q. The best evidence that he’s the real deal is the sheer hatred and suppression the Left is aiming at him.

Elizabeth Carter

Steve, This is what 8 chan does with Q posts. They look for things we would never even think of. They do the research and archive it.
I think it is fine to post this because anyone can go on 8chan to read things. Please let me know if this is something that can’t be posted here and I won’t do it again.
2492 Q !!mG7VJxZNCI No.466
Nov 12 2018 23:50:47 (EST)
ARIZONA
R Gov won by 328,000 votes.
D Sen is winning by 32,000 votes.
R Gov won Maricopa County by 325,000 votes.
D Sen winning Maricopa by 32,000 votes?
[350,000] vote swing to D Sen?
Q
2493 Q !!mG7VJxZNCI No.467
Nov 13 2018 00:12:14 (EST)
53-47
Q
Anonymous 11/14/18 (Wed) 15:16:28271808 No.3902712>>3904849
File (hide): f5e9fad3dd5e684⋯.png (7.86 KB, 255×166, 255:166, q drop 13 Nov 18.png) (h) (u)
ARIZONA
R
D
R
D
53-47
Arizona ARD = Arizona Road Dust = test for Air Qual.
BUT Reade International Corporation MAKES the ARD for testing purposes!!! They ALSO make CUSTOM BLENDS of METALLIC DUSTS – https://www.reade.com/products/arizona-test-dust-ansi-ard-arizona-ashrae-iso-jis-mtd-nfpa-nist-rm-srm-sae
https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=8246471
Reade International Corporation is privately held with no BOD listed. Not even the CEO! Any shovels around?
California Road Maintenance reports – ARD payments
https://www.sco.ca.gov/ard_payments_rmra_counties.html
don’t know what it means [maybe diverted funds allowed the fire storms to grow due to lack of funds?]
AZ Govenor is Repub
McSally is a Repub
How exactly does Sinema, a true pinko commie, win a Senate seat in the bastion of anti-commie sentiment? And FLAKE supports Sinema NOT McSally? I love self-declarations!!!
47-52 Ard Road, Ozark, Alabama = lots for sale (no 47-53 listed)
This happens over and over. That is why they were chosen for this work. I respect their work. Like all brainstorming, some is good, some is not and some turns out to have been right later.

SteveInCO

Whoa! I’m NOT suggesting (it isn’t for me to suggest) that this shouldn’t be posted. (Although given the fecal storm that has hit Q all over, I can understand why you might think so!)
I’m just saying I don’t think it makes much sense to draw the inferences being drawn here. Obviously you disagree.
This is why we discuss.

pjasond

Agree with the sentiment. There is a possible rational explanation that takes the “woo woo” out …
The Q phenomenon is being coordinated out of the WH, so POTUS is tweeting (on certain matters) according to a scripted theme. That requires no prescience, just coordination.
Of course you are correct that numbers are everywhere, and correlations thus necessarily occur often. So I am not arguing that coordination IS occurring, just that it may be.

SteveInCO

Of course PDJT could have simply decided to wait 45 days after the Q prediction of the election to tweet; that’s no biggie (it seems like more work than its worth, though). The Q prediction itself is either a damned lucky guess or would have to be prescient.
Unless I am totally confused on the timeline or something.

pjasond

I like this, Wolf. I wouldn’t mind sharing a beer with you whilst having a bit of a yarn about “all this” 🙂

SteveInCO

Same prairie falcon here….different tree though!

Disney Echo

Read Neon Revolt’s take on this: https://gab.com/NeonRevolt/posts/41278417

redlegleader68

GA Gov Update: Stacey Abrams to speak LIVE on Channel 2 Action News at 5p EST
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/stacey-abrams-to-speak-live-on-channel-2-action-news-at-5/874160971
FTA: “Abrams has called for a news conference at 5 p.m., which is also the deadline a judge has set for the state to certify the election.”

redlegleader68

W – I **MAY** have just joined you re: CTH. Wrote a couple of posts that were posted (about the GA Gov race), but the last one didn’t make it and I can no longer “like” any comments and my last post isn’t showing up. Yes, I have a verified WordPress account and have had it for quite some time now.

Sylvia Avery

I can’t help but think we’re being watched, and picked off one by one. It is downright creepy. But maybe I’m nuts. Think I’ll go for a walk while there is a patch of sun just to clear my head.
And sorry, BTW, redlegleader. I should have said that first. I have thought there was value in people being able to post in both places so each one of us “lost” seems like a real shame to me.

A.D. Everard

That’s why I have Walked-Away.

Sylvia Avery

You know what I am delighted about? Finding out that so many who got shook out of the Treehouse are people I’m quite happy and proud to hang with. I can’t help but feel it is an ill wind that blows no good.
We have been blessed.

A.D. Everard

I see us here for a reason. Perhaps we are better – think better, communicate better – without the distraction of trolls and being attacked for speaking our minds. It’s great finding so many over here.

Sylvia Avery

I do believe there was a reason. It is like finding a higher level experience (one that I wasn’t seeking!)
There’s still a variety of opinions about lots of stuff, but it is more intense somehow and since a lot of the background noise is filtered out it seems to add to the heightened experience.
I’m not expressing myself well, but I got interrupted and lost my train of thought. Basically, I agree with you!!!

A.D. Everard

Sylvia, I think you’ve expressed yourself very well! You certainly put it better than I did. 🙂

A.D. Everard

Totally agree, Wolfmoon. I’m getting to know people better than I did. It’s like everyone has relaxed. Maybe there has been pressure building for a long time and for the most part we’ve been watching what we say and dodging problems we only subconsciously recognized.

Elizabeth Carter

I have not bothered to find out if I am persona non grata at CT. I burned my own boat. I take out my telescope and give it a look to see if there is anything I am missing, but so far there is not.
I found it difficult to go from “Cold Anger” to “Just Roll Over and Give Up”
I am in line with Q who says Fight, Fight, Fight.
Years ago I found Kevin McDonald. I read a lot of his articles and made comments. He was a College Professor then and was very educated and I enjoyed his articles. Over time, I found that what he was saying ( and he made it very clear in his own words ) was that Christian White people in America have no chance of keeping our country and that he wanted to set up an alternative political party so that we would still have a small voice in America. I wrote a long comment and said basically what you just said. We are here to stay. That was around 2008. We are still here and the NWO is still trying to destroy us, but we are making progress and I am more and more certain that we will win this war.
There is a lot to be said for burning your own boat. The boats you mentioned were burned so that there was no way to go back to the old ways.
That is how I see us. We either fight for a chance to win, or we roll over and give up and they kill us anyway. There is no way to compromise in this situation. They want us dead or totally powerless. What do we have to lose?
Patrick Henry had it right.
http://www.ushistory.org/documents/libertydeath.htm
Give me liberty or give me death.
We will never give up.
President Trump “Never Give Up!”

wheatietoo

That’s one of my favorite Trump-videos, Elizabeth…thanks for posting it.
The music is titled ‘Victory’ from the group, TwoStepsFromHell.
It’s also one of my favorites.
TSFH creates a lot of inspirational music, most of it is instrumental.
And I too, have burned my boat.
It was the hypocrisy that tore it for me more than anything…and the dishonesty.

Sylvia Avery

I admire you and phoenixRising and Emeraldstar who said basically, “I’m done” and “walked away.”
Sometimes I think I’m the least decisive person in the world. I was aghast when I left the TH to come here but I wasn’t quite ready to say I’d never go back. Well. That decision was made for me by someone over there, but that’s okay actually.
Your way would have been bolder and braver, and I probably would have been happier having it been made totally on my terms. But we have ended up in the same place, and I’m okay with that. Every day that passes I am more comfortable with it.

A.D. Everard

I’m glad you’re more comfortable with it.
Funny you mentioned “walk away” when I just said that to you last comment before I saw this one. I guess we are thinking alike.

Sylvia Avery

🙂 🙂 🙂

Emeraldstar

“Sometimes I think I’m the least decisive person in the world”
No way you can be sure of that! 😉

Sylvia Avery

Well, I don’t know, maybe….. 🙂 🙂 🙂

andrew1979

do they ban by username and is that only possible on wp accounts that are logged in?

SteveInCO

Well, it’s the user account; you have to log in to comment, and they ban the user, even if he should somehow manage to change his name, it’s still the same account, tied to the same e-mail address.

andrew1979

the strangest thing so far for me is still the whole underlying reason why this happened. i have been involved with the internet and groups and sites a