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Discussion: c l i m a t e change


churchmouse
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There could well be a case to be made for the content of this graphic, in that it purports there is no climate crisis:

https://image.vuukle.com/0fb1f625-47b3-4788-9031-5fe43d5ad981-2c46362d-4c64-437e-96f1-dcf6dcc807dd

Surely, in the northern hemisphere, warmer temperatures help our survival, especially during the colder six months out of the year.

Our grain production has been increasing.

Our droughts have been decreasing.

Didn't we learn in our 20th century science classes at school that CO2 was necessary in order for plants to grow?

What's wrong with this picture? Comments welcome for discussion.

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Wolf Moon
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Excellent.  I will be back to opine when I'm eating less corn on the cob!

😆 😍 😝 🌻 🍷 🤠 😇 

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churchmouse
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@wolfmoon1776

Excellent! Looking forward to what you have to say.

Corn on the cob -- oh, please. It's late at night and I'm trying to avoid a midnight snack. 🙂 😍 

 

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Wolf Moon
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@churchmouse - Yes, that's right!  It's not "always dinner-time" on this site!!!

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singingsoul1
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@churchmouse

Concerning climate change. Many moons ago I took a class in cultural anthropology. I learned that climate has changed from the beginning and also the beginning of agriculture made changes to climate. This was way before industrialization. In essence climate has been changing for millions of years.

Also in another class I learned about Ice age and warming and how seas became desserts and desserts seas.  The earth the way I see it is alive for ever breathing moving and  renewing. The Universe Is and is creating changing molding the earth .

I know I have a simple mind but that is how I see it. Just imagine we little paeans to be able to influence change mold the atmosphere is astounding. Do I believe polluting is cool ? No  !  So we in the US have progressed concerning polluting but it is ok for China to do it and India and Russia and a lot of other countries? 

 

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Wolf Moon
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@singingsoul1_158613128_984325494 - your point about POLLUTION is key.  Trump always got that!

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churchmouse
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@singingsoul1_158613128_984325494

Exactly! Thank you!

Agree 110% with what you say. That's what I learned, too.

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Wolf Moon
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I think this is EXACTLY where the discussion of climate science has needed to go.

To BEGIN WITH, we need LONG-TERM understanding of climate, including both ICE AGES (which we are in now), CATASTROPHIC COLD DEATH (as may have happened in Earth's past, leading to massive extinctions), and CATASTROPHIC HEAT DEATH (as part of solar senescence), so that we can understand RELATIVE RISKS.  None of that is possible while we are mesmerized by the molehill of anthropogenic global warming in the MOUNTAIN range of heat death, including the GRAND CANYON of ice ages.

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SteveInCO
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@wolfmoon1776

On the other hand...it's pointless to compare our current situation to the Cambrian as if it were some sort of ideal, or even a situation we can get away with repeating today.  If some climate weenie laughs at you for posting this graph...he's likely justified (and I hate saying that), depending on where you want to go with it.

We could have the CO<sub>2</sub> (maybe that subscript will effing work here) levels of the Cambrian, but only if we could also get the insolation we had back then.

And the sun was perhaps five percent less luminous back then.  It has been slowly gaining in luminosity at the rate of about ten percent every billion years.  The CO<subscript>2</subscript> levels back then compensated for it being dimmer back then.

It's likely that a billion years from now the sun will be bright enough that any greenhouse effect will be too much.  As it can't be completely avoided, we're going to have some trouble and we might actually want to consider the shit Bill Gates is talking about.  If, that is, anyone is still around in a billion years.

The Neogene (N) part of that graph is really the only part that is relevant today.

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Wolf Moon
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@steveinco - I have no problem with those numbers and where I'm going with it.  Five or 10% less luminosity with that massive difference in CO2 providing a livable planet tells me that modern sensitivities under current fluctuations in CO2 are nothing.  The anthropolitical warmists are still misleading us.  The proper question for science is how strong, how long, and how periodic the ice ages are going to be, and whether we can raise the technology to cool the planet prior to that time (when the ice ages are over and heating is a real problem) - preferably using the solar energy itself to help provide the cooling.  Likewise, how to deal with the COLD during the ice age periods.

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churchmouse
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@wolfmoon1776

This x 1000.

It seems as if few of these scientists are approaching the subject scientifically.

 

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Wolf Moon
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An open admission that the term "global greening" is beautiful propaganda - just like "global warming" is.  That said, the idea of "global greening" has a core virtue - it points out that, in the SMALL climate changes we observe NOW, and which are actually possible by humans, WARMING with MORE atmospheric CO2 is more likely to be beneficial, generally, to life on the planet, while cooling will be - as it always has been - problematic for life.

Warmer climates with more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere supported ABUNDANT life on this planet.  Colder climates with less carbon dioxide always caused MASSIVE EXTINCTIONS and created large regions, both cold and largely devoid of life.  Sudden events which led to sharp, short cooling likewise led to mass extinctions.

Global COOLING?  Be careful what you wish for, proggies!

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Linda
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@wolfmoon1776 Mass extinctions? That's exactly what the NWO wants. Covid, vaccines, the global warming scam, endless stupid wars. It all seems to be headed in that direction. Let's face it - they want to get rid of us any way they can.

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Wolf Moon
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@linda - yes - I'm thinking it's very odd that the whole money-addicted carbon cabal wants COOLING going into a cooling cycle, where stupid technologies that will FAIL in the cold will just HARM HUMANITY.  Personally, I think they're like Biden - they're just evil - but even THEY are being taken advantage of - by what may be "5GW" warfare against humanity.  Pure war by peacetime mass deception of humanity - where we don't even REALIZE there's a war.

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SteveInCO
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@linda

"Mass Extinctions" is a reference to killing numerous species, not just the one known as Homo sapiens.

They're quite willing to get rid of us because they blame us for what they claim is a mass extinction of other species.  They're even going so far as to claim we're headed for killing off the same percentages of living species that died in events like the Permo-Triassic (95 percent of all living things, 251 million years ago), or the Cretateous-Paleogene (non-avian dinosuars, and about 30 percent of all living things, 66 million years ago).  In other words that some future paleontologists will look at today and call it the sixth mass extinction.

They want to "extinct" us because we are, in their minds, a cancer that is killing the planet.

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Valerie Curren
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@steveinco

Humans are a disease & we are the cure--Agent Smith, The Matrix 😎 

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SteveInCO
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@valeriecurren

Now the Matrix series is an interesting study in how far Hollywood has its head up its ass!  The first movie was good, it raises interesting questions.  There's a lot of verbal philosophizing in it, but it's on point--what if we *are* brains in a vat?  How would we know?

Some interesting "hanging things" were left for the sequels.

The sequels didn't address those.  Instead, someone decided the babble and the fight scenes were what sold the first movie, so we had pointless fight scenes and completely nonsensical babble.  I was so disgusted by the second movie I never saw the third.

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Valerie Curren
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@steveinco

We own the 2nd & 3rd & I've seen them both a couple times but mostly forget the plot points, many of which didn't really make sense.  We usually just watch the 1st one as a standalone & love it!  There is also something called "The Animatrix" that we watched from a library check-out that was interesting & expanded on the matrix world creatively...

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SteveInCO
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@valeriecurren

The first move had one really stupid thing it it...but they could have fixed it in the later movies...by revealing that the reality that conversation was taking place in was itself fake.  In fact, the stupidity could have been used as evidence it was phony.

It would be pointless to use us as batteries...well, even that is stupid, he meant energy supplies.  We net consume energy, every one of us throws off 100-150W of heat, 24/7.  That heat has to be generated, we generate it by burning food.

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SteveInCO
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@valeriecurren

OK, there is ONE foolproof test of whether you are a brain in a vat, no false positives anyway.

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Valerie Curren
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@steveinco

LOL!  It's like my husband tells me about the lure of porn how guys always imagine that the "do-me" face is Really directed at them personally, like they are the porn-star's sex fantasy! 🤣 

Then there was that story out of Africa about the hooker who sexed some guys to death & she had people lining up for her services--what a way to go!  😳 

Some things are universal & if one is being lured by those universal magnetisms then one should automatically be on guard to make sure who's holding the fishing pole attached to said lure is reliable (God, spouse, etc).  Love your take there!!!

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singingsoul1
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@wolfmoon1776

Some  ideas to think about and mull over.

With all the scare of climate change it opened the door for exploitation. Gates wanting to block the sun. How loony is that . The sun does not belong to Gates or the globalists it belongs to everyone all earthly life forms.

This whole climate scare is that. They want us scared they want our children and grand kids scarred. The fear factor has a purpose. By closing the churches making God relevant where to people go when they have fear? The money that is being skimmed off is benefiting whom? Someone wants to weaken the core of our being. The people who are dreaming this up are evil.

I would believe them if they would work for all countries to curb emission and pollution but with letting third world countries pollute makes no sense. Tomorrow I like to hear what others think. I need my beauty sleep  🙂

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Wolf Moon
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@singingsoul1_158613128_984325494 - I don't think much of Gates.  I am fairly certain he was behind much of the attack on HCQ.  I think he's up to no good, frankly.

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Elize
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@singingsoul1 completely agree.

The left/swamp needs us to be scared of something always, that way the sheep turn to them/the government to be saved.

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churchmouse
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@singingsoul1_158613128_984325494

The last thing we need here in the UK is the sun being blocked! We need more sunlight most years.

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TheseTruths
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Churchmouse's graphic says cold temperatures kill 20 times more than heat.  Leftists are ignoring that we are in a Grand Solar Minimum (2020-2053), when temperatures will be cooler and the jet stream will be less stable, allowing for more weather extremes like the recent single-digit temperatures in the South.  This can lead to food shortages and all kinds of related problems, and people need to be preparing for this instead of worryong about warming that isn't happening.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2020.1796243

In this editorial I will demonstrate with newly discovered solar activity proxy-magnetic field that the Sun has entered into the modern Grand Solar Minimum (2020–2053) that will lead to a significant reduction of solar magnetic field and activity like during Maunder minimum leading to noticeable reduction of terrestrial temperature.

During these grand solar minima, there is a significant reduction of solar magnetic field and solar irradiance, which impose the reduction of terrestrial temperatures derived for these periods from the analysis of terrestrial biomass during the past 12,000 or more years. The most recent grand solar minimum occurred during Maunder Minimum (1645–1710), which led to reduction of solar irradiance by 0.22% from the modern one and a decrease of the average terrestrial temperature by 1.0–1.5°C.

Since the Left is touting the opposite of what science says, I can only conclude that they have an agenda that is not in our best interest but that serves some interest of theirs.  We knew this anyway, but now they are clearly demonstrating it.

The reduction of a terrestrial temperature during the next 30 years can have important implications for different parts of the planet on growing vegetation, agriculture, food supplies, and heating needs in both Northern and Southern hemispheres. This global cooling during the upcoming grand solar minimum 1 (2020–2053) can offset for three decades any signs of global warming and would require inter-government efforts to tackle problems with heat and food supplies for the whole population of the Earth.

Another article:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/texas-deep-freeze-urgent-climate-warning/5738312

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Wolf Moon
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@thesetruths - good stuff!

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TheseTruths
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@wolfmoon1776  I came across an article about this a couple of months ago and later thought the February freezing weather must be part of it.  Sure enough, that has been confirmed.  A lot of people were caught off guard.  The Left's constant preaching and scare-mongering is the opposite of what we need.  We should be concerned about cooling, and now they want to eliminate important sources of heat.  I can only think this is an evil, long-term agenda.

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Wolf Moon
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@thesetruths - there was "not recently precedented" evidence of cooling in my locale, and I am certain it's due to solar cooling.  It's matching EXACTLY what is being predicted on the solar scale.

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Elize
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@thesetruths  I don't want to mess up by trying to quote your entire post.  So I copied and pasted.

vvvvvvv agree completely!

"Since the Left is touting the opposite of what science says, I can only conclude that they have an agenda that is not in our best interest but that serves some interest of theirs.  We knew this anyway, but now they are clearly demonstrating it."

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churchmouse
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@thesetruths

Thank you for the link.

'inter-government efforts to tackle problems with heat and food': no, just no. Stay out of our lives, please.

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barkerjim
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One thing that is wrong with the pictures is that the last data points is from 2012. More data is always better to determine trends. 

One site I like looking at is from Australia. 

All the expert climate models are still tuned too high — at double the real warming rate « JoNova (joannenova.com.au)

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SteveInCO
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@barkerjim

If I were genuinely convinced of the thesis that our CO2 levels are dangerous, I would be furious with these people.  By consistently overstating the case, after all, they're risking a "cry wolf" syndrome.  (And the environmental movement takes what they say and exaggerates it again for short term political gain.)  If I believed that New York city would be drowned sometime if this isn't reversed, I'd be annoyed at the people who consistently predict it will be five years from now, and are then proven wrong.  (Just as, I imagine, Christians get annoyed at the fools who predict a certain date for judgment day and are always wrong; from the point of view of Christians, such asshattery can't do anything but make the whole idea seem silly to the very people who really, really, ought to listen to it.)

Surely they can see this.  So why don't they fix it?  Maybe because they aren't themselves convinced and are consciously putting forth a fraud.  As such they're overstating their case as much as they dare.

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barkerjim
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barkerjim
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barkerjim
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barkerjim
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barkerjim
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Seems there is a Big Warming group as well.

Roger Pielke Jr. Discovers Big Warming – Watts Up With That?

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barkerjim
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How the climate discussion is perverted.

Turning Opinion into Science Fact – Watts Up With That?

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barkerjim
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TradeBait2
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https://www.thoughtco.com/the-history-of-the-thermometer-1992525

Late to the party and just a simple thought. If all climate debates are based on observation and scientific analysis (ridiculous assumption) - how does one go thousands of years back in time and apply current scientific facts and theories to something that was not observed with the necessary tools and knowledge? Case in point, a simple, accurate thermometer being used in multiple world locations over thousands of years of historically proven human existence. Even the predecessor to the thermometer was not invented until the late 1500's.

We are making fools out of selves.  

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